An old time thread from a time when people could agree to disagree... It was also a time of a different slot size and allowable number of sturgeon per year. Today you are allowed three sturgeon per year with a fork length of 40 to 60 inches.
Date: February 18, 2004
To: Pier Fishing In California Message Board
From: STURGEON KING
Subject: Sturgeon
I just wanted to bring up a topic I had in mind for all you sturgeon men. What’s the most Sturgeon anyone has caught in one year? And what pier do you think brings in the most Sturgeon in one year? I was just looking over my pics and dates and wanted to bring up this topic due to the fact we were talking about the best way to cook a Sturgeon, so I thought I would throw this one out. For me, I took nine keeper Sturgeon home in 2003 and released one oversized, all from piers. Eckley, Point Benicia, and Montzuma piers were my hot spots, but I wouldn't agree that they haul in the most sturgeon in one year. Can't wait to here other fisherman’s notes and minds!!! Tim
Posted by mel
I caught three last year. One was about 5 foot at Paradise Pier. I think it was about November, but that one got away after wrapping around the pilings on 15lb. mono. Then in December, I got one that was probably oversized but it got away after getting tangled in the snare on 17 lb. mono. (Also at Paradise Pier). Do those count? Anyway, the other one was a shaker caught at McNears and I caught another shaker there also, but that was in January. I think the best pier sturgeon wise has to be McNears. I've seen the most sturgeon caught there. BTW: I only plan on keeping one a year. That's enough to fill my freezer and my brother's too. I have too much respect for these magnificent creatures. Nine in one year is a bit much to keep but it's your prerogative. You should think more about C&R.
Posted by andthelinegoeszziipp
As Mel stated keeping one of these great creatures is enough in my opinion. Come out to Coyote Point where the average last year was spectacular. Almost all of them were kept. This year the bite went down considerably give or take a few great days. For me there’s nothing to blame other than the guys who have taken multiple fish throughout the season. These guys alone have put a dent in the population in only two years. Don’t take this personal. It’s not an attack but hopefully you can see the benefits of Catch and Release, especially with a fish like sturgeon.
Posted by StripeSideChaser
Just kidding, but one sturgeon put meat in my freezer for a long time. Sturgeon are extremely slow growing, and really can be overfished quickly... that's probably the main reason you don't hear about too many GREAT spots (the people know how easy an area could be over fished). I agree with andtheline... As long as you are within the law, you have to make your own decisions, but please everyone, don't take more of this fish than you can eat. The sturgeon isn't like a striper that matures in 2-3 years and I would sure hate to think that my kids wouldn't get a chance to catch one by the time they are my age! I fish, therefore I lie!
Posted by Bigunindaboat
This is what SLOT limits are for.
Posted by Dude Wheres My Fish
I've noticed almost all sport fish that have a high food value are kept and never release unless they are undersize. Fish like sturgeon, stripers, halibut, are almost always kept by anglers regardless of how many that angler has kept thus so far in the season.
I only know one person that C&R stripers, he is a lure fisherman who catches stripers all the time at McNears and never keeps them, and he never gives them away either.
Fish that are not highly valued for food like rays are almost always c&r unless you are one of the few who know how to prepare it properly. I agree with the above posts that nine fish in a single season is rather excessive, especially if those fish were spawning females. I remember I caught one sturgeon last year and it lasted my family and I for months.
Maybe my family has a smaller appetite than the STURGEON KING's. Most anglers I know think they are avid practitioners of C&R but all they are doing is throwing back fish they don't consider worthy of their stomachs; those so called C&R fisherman throw C&R out the window when they hook a fish they consider of high food value.
Just from the anglers I met I would say 90% are phony C&R anglers, because they practice what I described above. Maybe I am just meeting bad anglers and my experiences do not truly reflect the pier and shore anglers in general.
Posted by giflet
First of all if STURGEON KING was able to catch nine sturgeon and decided to keep all of them, more power to him, If I was lucky enough to bag nine Halibut of legal size over a years time, believe me I would keep them also. Now this past weekend I was able to catch a very nice sized (20lb) shovelnose at Belmont pier in Long Beach, understanding that this is not a high value sport fish as DudeWMF may state but as I landed him, my son unhooked him and started lifting him over the side of the pier to release, a fellow fisherman from a ways down the pier began screaming at my son (not in a bad way or anything) not to let the fish go, he wanted it. He wanted to take the fish for his self and felt that if it was going to be released back what was the difference. Well my son and I are very much into C&R of all fish except for Halis of course (and bait fish), and I asked my son if he wanted to give it to the guy. My son’s reply was no way, so I told the guy it was going back in the water. He was noticeably upset. Oh well I caught the fish I can release the fish. Has this ever happened to anyone else????
You better wear a life jacket when joining this board, cause you can drown in information.
Posted by StripeSideChaser
Butts mature much quicker than sturgeon
Posted by og
Yes, I have received an evil eye and a dropped jaw many times (especially with stripers). I'm sure once you start to master a spot and/or species, and you have those nine or so fish, your “I'm observing the lowest common denominator of a legal minimum, so have at it feeling will change.” I hate to get corny but it's like the lesson Peter Parker learns in Spider Man of just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Or as the line from the movie goes (my kid loves it) “With great power comes great responsibility.”
Posted by STURGEON KING
Let Me Explain... For the people who understand where I am coming from thanks for your support. For the people who disagree with me what about this? A little while back a group of Russians got caught keeping Sturgeon Eggs and DFG considered them killing hundreds if not thousands of these awesome fish. What about Party boats with anywhere from 6-12 people on board that will catch as many sturgeon as they can for a living. I’m nowhere close to being a poacher, I turn those kinds of people in. When I catch a keeper Sturgeon I’m done, I don't even attempt to fish for other species either. Understand that when I’m not playing ball or working out, I’m always fishing. I live pretty much on top of the Carquinez Straits where a lot of sturgeon are caught every year. Why don't you ask a captain of a charter boat how many they bring home a year. I bet it's the nine I hauled in times that again. Not mentioning there are a lot of boats targeting these fish too. Also understand I put a lot of time in. Probably at least a good 75 days out of the year I spend sturgeon fishing. I have a big family and am pretty well known as a baseball player, there are plenty of people who I know that will enjoy a meal and I know by giving it to them it won’t go to waste. I didn't mean to start a congested topic where all anyone has to say is how I shouldn’t have kept all of them. I highly believe in catch and release but when I’m spending $13.00 a pound for grass shrimp of buying expensive eel on every trip, along with putting in all of the slow time when the bite isn't hot, it's hard to let such a golden opportunity just swim away. I guess some people think I’m trying to brag on how many sturgeon I caught last year or what a good fisherman I am. No way am I trying to do that. I just wanted to hear some other stats and what pier you people think hauls in the most Dinos in one year. Thanks to all the people like Giflet, John69, Red, Mel, etc. I appreciate your posts. For all the other people you guys are great people too, I don't understand how you blow so much smoke when you really don't even understand. It’s all good, no problems. I like you all, and this board a lot for all everyone has done and posted. Hopefully you understand where I am coming from!!!! Keep on fishing everyone and continue to keep those reports coming!!! Tim
Posted by Dude Wheres My Fish
Abalone divers use a similar argument. The abalone fishery is declining drastically in northern California and most abalone divers blame poachers for the decline, however according to DFG abalone take as a result of poaching is less than 2% of the total take, in reality the 50,000 plus abalone harvesters are to blame for the decline who obey the law.
50,000 X 24per year abalone = 1,200,000 abalone taken every year. The DFG has this kind of data from tracking the amount of abalone punch cards sold and counting the take on returned punch cards at the end of the season, unfortunately with Sturgeon the DFG has no accurate measure of how pressured the Sturgeon population is by sport angling.
As G-Dude stated having a punch card system for Sturgeon will allow DFG to gather data on the Sturgeon harvest by anglers. Some will argue that if a punch card system is put into place, legal Sturgeon will never be released, this is true, but how many anglers release legal Sturgeon now? The 75 plus days spent every year $13.00 for grass shrimp and buying expensive eel prevents anglers from just letting the fish "swim away".
By implementing an abalone punch card system to Sturgeon and limiting it to a certain amount of fish, the DFG will be able to gather the relevant data, and we will reach a balance between what boaters harvest and pier and shore anglers harvest.
Posted by johnthefisherman69
Hmmmm, I think I am gonna have to give ya guys about 10 cents worth on this one. Sturgeon King, I would go get checked for mercury poisoning if I was you or maybe not, maybe it helps your swing, don’t know. But for the rest of you guys, your averages on how long a sturgeon lasts is a little long. It all depends on the size of the sturgeon and its weight. I shouldn't have to state this though. The thing is I caught a 62” 45lb. or so sturgeon and its meat lasted me only one and a half months. The reason being is that I enjoy sharing my catch with other people who don’t fish or have the time to do it but may purely enjoy sturgeon meat. I see nothing wrong with sharing my catch with friends and family. My second sturgeon I kept last year went straight to the smoker. Let me just tell you that before I knew it POOOOF! All my precious smoked sturgeon was gone.
The total weight of the meat from these two fish was about 28 lbs. I consumed or gifted the meat away in about four months. By the way, not one piece of edible meat was wasted. Both heads were given to my friends who drive the catering trucks on the job sites where I work so that they could make soup with it. I do agree with you guys that the sturgeon is a magnificent creature but I also say that this board is not a good place for making someone look bad. Lets quit blowing smoke up other board members butts on this board. LOL Johnthefisherman
Posted by StripeSideChaser
I don't think anyone is "blowing smoke"...just trying to get people to consider others and the future. Good point about the mercury poisoning, though. On the other hand, if he keeps it up, we'll be able to use him as a thermometer! I fish, therefore I lie!
Posted by STURGEON KING
Bad StripeSideChaser Bad HEE HEE HEE. That was a good one. It took me a second to get it but once I understood its pretty funny. No worry’s, I watch how much I eat in a certain amount of time. The meat is spread through families and friends too. You better stick to your regular thermometers. That was a good one though guys!!! HEE HEE HEE HEE.... Tim
Posted by 2d
Even if you do consume all of the useable portions of the sturgeon, do you see the math problem in your response as applied to the original post?
Posted by giflet
This has nothing to do with math (at all) I can see if the guy was keeping shakers or oversized sturgies, OR GOING OVER HIS LIMITS ON A DAY’s CATCH. That’s one thing, but he is within the law stated by the DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME (dfg), that is the only math you need to figure this one out. Get off of the guys back. You better wear a life jacket when joining this board, cause you can drown in information.
Posted by StripeSideChaser
Giflet, nobody was getting on his back, just trying to present an opposing view with the hope of causing thought. If the guy is within the law, he can do whatever he wants! If he is breaking the law, he hopefully has enough sense not to report it here. That's one of the awesome things about this board, we can disagree, and yet have some good social intercourse, while airing our personal feelings about the topic! I fish, therefore I lie!
Posted by giflet
Agreed, I guess my troublesome morning at work drove me to vent a little, and what better way than to do so than amongst friends, sorry if I offended anyone with my sarcastic unneeded statement. And hey StripeSideChaser I like the line about social intercourse, is it ok to use that in the future (it’s great).
Posted by 2d
I agree that, if he's within the regs, he can do what he wants, however, I was just pointing out that, given johnthefisherman69’s rate of consumption, it would take sturgeon king 18 months to consume his nine keeper sturgies.
Posted by johnthefisherman69
Answer for 2D.Yes, I do see the problem with the math. At 6:30 am this morning my head wasn't all there. I thought all day long about the mayhem that might be erupting from the first few posts and all I have to say is in the future I will chaperone Sturgeon King and throw him and his fish back in the water. Only problem is when I fish with Tim he never hooks up, I do. Although, there were many times, we stared for hours at the end of our poles waiting for pumps and getting nothing. The most important thing here is the facts, neither one of us has gutted a sturgeon and found eggs. Why, because they get released. Next, we treat all shakers like precious babies. They are released without a photo being taken. This is so they spend less time out of the water. Next, is the fact that Tim was addicted to Sturgeon last year. I don’t think anyone here who has caught a sturgeon can say he wasn't addicted after catching one, let alone, having seen it at the end of your line and losing it. Times are obviously changing. That is all, johnthefisherman..
Posted by 2d
As I said in my post, I have no problem with an angler who acts legally (as I assume SK did). I just was pointing out that the numbers used to defend SK actually hurt him in this case.
Posted by tomaurand
Actually math HAS something to do with this issue. Say you get 20lbs of meat off nine keeper fish. That is 180 LBS of meat. You catch these fish in 75 days. The limit is one fish, that includes the one fish you caught yesterday that is already in your freezer. How does one eat 180 lbs of fish meat in 75 days and stay in the one fish legal possession limit? The math does NOT legally add up. Tom,
Proud Supporter of UPSAC.
Posted by STURGEON KING
Ok it’s a never ending war. Your averages are right but not all that meat goes in my freezer. Some people have friends and family’s and it just so happens I have a ton of them. The meat just doesn’t sit in the freezer for when I’m hungry. I keep a little meat and the rest goes to friends and family. I don’t eat 180 pounds of meat. It’s all spread around. Johnthefisherman69 has gotten quite a bit of meat. I don't understand how you bring this topic up as its illegal to keep my one sturgeon a day. Tell me how! I live by the laws, get off my back. None of this was the question. What pier do you think produces the most sturgeon a year was, I believe, the original question.
Posted by tomaurand
Sorry dude, Not trying to split hairs but the limit is not one fish a day. Its ONE fish period. I see your point and believe you are doing the right thing but having more than one sturgeon in the freezer is illegal. Even if you have a part of a fillet in the freezer and you catch and keep another dino technically you are in violation of the law. Again, not trying to flame or start any problems just saying what I feel from reading the posts. As for the question.....McNears... Tom, Proud Supporter of UPSAC.
Posted by Rock Hopper
I know plenty of people (from this board only!) that practice C&R regularly on high profile food fish. I've released all but three of the stripers I've ever caught, you wouldn't believe how many legal lings I've released from shore if I told you... not to mention from my kayak. If I ever catch a legal sturgeon it, and any other I ever catch, will be released. Out of all the legal cabbies I've ever caught I’ve only kept one (and cabs are my favorite local fish to eat). Out of the dozen or so legal ‘buts I've caught recently I've only kept four...and so on. So if you ever meet me you can say that you know two people who release the vast majority of ALL fish that they catch. ;-) Same goes for 'Slinger, Jason Chin, Nufo, Predator....the list goes on and on.
I do think keeping nine sturgeons in a season is quite a bit...but Mr. Sturgeon King didn't break any laws and maybe his family/friends really love a good sturgeon meal. No hard feelings or ill will from me... RöćK HòppéR – Thë Jẽ††Ỹ Jùnký, Proud supporter of UPSAC!
Posted by Red Fish
C&R by choice. While you are on the topic of C&R. I know some people that catch and release by selection. For instance, they catch something they don't like to eat and they throw it back. Then, other fish that they favor the taste of, they keep it. Another for instance, If someone catches what would be considered a desirable game-fish at a dump-site or basically a septic tank, and releases it because of the possibility of contamination, it is still C&R. At least one of the people you mentioned catches way over their limit, so they would have to release some of their catch under the law. And, some people just don't eat fish. I really wonder how many private boaters throw back legal fish that they catch on that one weekend day per week they go out?? I throw back a lot of “desirable” game-fish to some and keep things I desire like perch and salmon. Others I give to friends. Some, I try on occasions and share with others as to not consume more than the recommended amounts from biologists. Personally, I am disagreement with the current no minimum size limit on 7gill sharks and DFG agent Ed Roberts told me if I feel strongly enough about it, I should address my concerns directly to DFG advising me that they do listen to the comments of sport anglers. “The law is the law.” Uh, oh, I'm in trouble when I start quoting lines from Victor Hugo's works, LOL
Posted by pescare
Minor Correction: "I am disagreement with the current no minimum size limit on 7gill sharks and DFG agent Ed Roberts told me if I feel strongly enough about it, I should address my concerns directly to DFG advising me that they do listen to the comments of sport anglers." If I remember correctly, he suggested contacting the Fish and Game Commission. DFG does the enforcement, but the commission makes the decisions. Ed
Posted by pescare
Re: Most high value food sport fish are kept. Interesting observation. I'd probably agree, depending where you fish and who you fish with. I believe though, that this board still attracts an atypical audience and I'm sure there are more real C&R people here than you would find on any given day at any given pier. As others have mentioned here, I too have raised eyebrows and heard snide comments when releasing a keeper "value" fish in front of a more typical group of meat anglers. Like RockHopper, I know LOTS of real C&R anglers that use this board and I admire every one of them for it. I've certainly got nothing against legally keeping your catch, but I wish more would give a thought to putting a good fish back once in a while. Ed
Posted by surfcaster
Geez! Sounds like the PETA board! You are right! Others are wrong! So it's okay to enforce you own values on others!
Posted by StripeSideChaser
I don't think anyone has enforced anything...you haven't seen any of these posts removed, nor the poster blocked, or even threatened. Just a bunch of different "fisherpeople" (pc version) giving their differing opinions. Remember, opinions are like ... (you know the rest). I fish, therefore I lie!
Posted by Red Fish
I usually average one or two keepers a year from shore. When I catch one keeper, I stop for that day and go home. I am sure if I was to continue fishing I could probably add more to my scorecard for that day. But I don't concentrate that much time to sturgeon fishing alone. I divide up my time with bass, shark and flounder as well. I have caught as many as (5) sturgeon in one day off of a boat (shakers and keeper).
A number of places can be good when the conditions are right. For one, fish stack up on the South and North end where they have nowhere else to go. Napa River in the North, and the marshes such as Alviso and Coyote in the South. Anywhere on the Cuanang map is a good location when you figure out where they are moving. McNear's (San Pedro Pt.) is one of the easiest (most consistent) piers to hook up
Posted by gyozadude
Best sturgeon piers in the Bay? This is really a toss up, because there are piers that are more consistent than others during certain seasons, but then there are piers that can see dozens pulled out in a weekend during the herring spawn.
During the winter, I'd have to say that if we're talking pure numbers, on average, it's a wash between North/East Bay and the Peninsula. You've got Eckley, Pinole, Vallejo, Alameda Rockwall. We've got Oyster Pt., Candlestick, Sierra Point, and most of all Coyote Pt. (which is a Jetty, but the outermost seawall and therefore a pier — two rods okay, no license needed to answer another question someone posted). The former set of piers tend to be consistent throughout winter and spring. The latter are hot for two week stints and then die down. But the numbers caught on the Peninsula are perhaps higher because during the herring spawn, if they come in close, the sturgeon are right under them and as reported this year at Coyote Pt., there were over 40 sturgeon taken in just one night out at the jetty. On average, that's as much sturgeon taken in one night at Coyote that Alameda or Pinole might see in two months!
During the Spring and into late spring, the Sac-Delta spots are probably hotter than the rest of the spots and I'd argue that Montezuma and Grizzly Island are best.
And for overall consistency year round, the South Bay, with a number of marshlands and local creek drainages and treated fresh water drainages offers the most consistent year-round action. Late fall/first winter rains down in the south bay are also an attraction for sturgeons and Dumbarton, Fremont Forebay, Ravenswood, East Palo Alto, Bayfront, Redwood City are have either piers or shoreline spots that can offer consistent catches of cruising sturgeons.
As for the discussion of C-n-R and keeping sturgeon, all I can say is that you're well within the DFG regulations to keep one fish a day, and possess one fish at any time. If you follow that rule and spread the joy of sturgeon meat to friends and family, well, more power to you. I personally haven't eaten anything out of the Bay since 1986, although I have kept fish and given them away to others from the Bay, but less than twice in the last 10 years, and simply because I'm not very eager to eat Bay fish. Too much known risk for me (although I gotta ask myself why I still eat burgers and fast junk food...). But if folks want to do that, and the law allows them, then it's just my opinion on CnR and you should feel no shame or compulsion to change.
That said, however, we should know that the fecundity of sturgeon is quite low. They're almost like humans. They don't sexually mature until their 11 years old. The mean doubling time for white sturgeon (Acipenser transmontanus) is 14 years, and that, I assume includes some contribution from the older, larger breeders that may live to 104 years of age. So what this means is that if we remove larger breeders and keep more than 7% of the total population of adult sturgeon per year, basically, we're going to wipe out the species pretty soon, regardless of the DFG regulations.
I'd argue that if folks head up the Fraser River towards Chilliwack, British Columbia, there are still fish over 10 ft that can be hooked. But the Canadians are already banning any keeping of sturgeon and there is talk of a complete moratorium even on C-n-R because of harm to sturgeon during a prolonged fight. So they've got lots of big sturgeon up there, and fewer people putting pressure on these big dinos, but the Canucks have deemed it fit to limit sturgeon take to zero keepers, and C-n-R only for now, with possibility of complete closure to all take.
Does this warrant any action by DFG? I hope they're monitoring it closely. One idea that might satisfy people for now is a sturgeon punch card. This will limit people to keeping perhaps a maximum of five sport caught sturgeon per year. The fish cannot be given away under a punch card system, because the angler must keep-it first in order to give it to someone, who must also possess a punch card. And children must also carry punch cards as well. Fish caught and kept must be recorded immediately and failure to do so would be a punishable offense as with other punch cards.
Gyozadude - Proud UPSAC Member, "Yes - I can roll potsticker skins"
Posted by Nufo
One of the top most productive piers (year round) for sturgeon is in the south bay. The thing is only maybe 10 people on this board know its name and where it is. Others may have heard of it but will never find it. I bet even Ken Jones himself has never heard its name or if he has, he has no idea where to find it. It cannot be found on the east or the west. The very south is where it rests. Nufo
Posted by tom barrett
My guess is McNears for total numbers in a year.
Posted by gyozadude
What do you think the catch rate is at McNears? I think places like Dumbarton might pull out one sturgeon per week or less on average, but that's because of its accessibility. That’d put it up in the 40-50 sturgeon per year. But if we normalized it with the number of anglers there fishing for sturgeon and number of days people fish per week, I'd have to guess that it's about 1 sturgeon per 10 man-days of fishing for one sturgeon. Which isn't bad.
I'm sure at McNears and Eckley, there's gotta be dozens of folks targeting sturgeon every day and there may be one or two at the most. So normalized for folks with sturgeon rigs fishing sturgeon bait (i.e. shrimp and/or herring) the normalized catch rate isn't that much better.
What would be really interesting is if they allowed Werder Pier in San Mateo to open and folks were allowed to fish just short of the channel. I'm pretty certain that you'd see that quickly become a hot spot for sturgeon. Gyozadude - Proud UPSAC Member
"Yes - I can roll potsticker skins"
Posted by johnthefisherman69
My Favorite Thread so far
Posted by STURGEON KING
Thanks Gyozadude, The Topic Needs To Change!!!
Date: February 18, 2004
To: Pier Fishing In California Message Board
From: STURGEON KING
Subject: Sturgeon
I just wanted to bring up a topic I had in mind for all you sturgeon men. What’s the most Sturgeon anyone has caught in one year? And what pier do you think brings in the most Sturgeon in one year? I was just looking over my pics and dates and wanted to bring up this topic due to the fact we were talking about the best way to cook a Sturgeon, so I thought I would throw this one out. For me, I took nine keeper Sturgeon home in 2003 and released one oversized, all from piers. Eckley, Point Benicia, and Montzuma piers were my hot spots, but I wouldn't agree that they haul in the most sturgeon in one year. Can't wait to here other fisherman’s notes and minds!!! Tim
Posted by mel
I caught three last year. One was about 5 foot at Paradise Pier. I think it was about November, but that one got away after wrapping around the pilings on 15lb. mono. Then in December, I got one that was probably oversized but it got away after getting tangled in the snare on 17 lb. mono. (Also at Paradise Pier). Do those count? Anyway, the other one was a shaker caught at McNears and I caught another shaker there also, but that was in January. I think the best pier sturgeon wise has to be McNears. I've seen the most sturgeon caught there. BTW: I only plan on keeping one a year. That's enough to fill my freezer and my brother's too. I have too much respect for these magnificent creatures. Nine in one year is a bit much to keep but it's your prerogative. You should think more about C&R.
Posted by andthelinegoeszziipp
As Mel stated keeping one of these great creatures is enough in my opinion. Come out to Coyote Point where the average last year was spectacular. Almost all of them were kept. This year the bite went down considerably give or take a few great days. For me there’s nothing to blame other than the guys who have taken multiple fish throughout the season. These guys alone have put a dent in the population in only two years. Don’t take this personal. It’s not an attack but hopefully you can see the benefits of Catch and Release, especially with a fish like sturgeon.
Posted by StripeSideChaser
Just kidding, but one sturgeon put meat in my freezer for a long time. Sturgeon are extremely slow growing, and really can be overfished quickly... that's probably the main reason you don't hear about too many GREAT spots (the people know how easy an area could be over fished). I agree with andtheline... As long as you are within the law, you have to make your own decisions, but please everyone, don't take more of this fish than you can eat. The sturgeon isn't like a striper that matures in 2-3 years and I would sure hate to think that my kids wouldn't get a chance to catch one by the time they are my age! I fish, therefore I lie!
Posted by Bigunindaboat
This is what SLOT limits are for.
Posted by Dude Wheres My Fish
I've noticed almost all sport fish that have a high food value are kept and never release unless they are undersize. Fish like sturgeon, stripers, halibut, are almost always kept by anglers regardless of how many that angler has kept thus so far in the season.
I only know one person that C&R stripers, he is a lure fisherman who catches stripers all the time at McNears and never keeps them, and he never gives them away either.
Fish that are not highly valued for food like rays are almost always c&r unless you are one of the few who know how to prepare it properly. I agree with the above posts that nine fish in a single season is rather excessive, especially if those fish were spawning females. I remember I caught one sturgeon last year and it lasted my family and I for months.
Maybe my family has a smaller appetite than the STURGEON KING's. Most anglers I know think they are avid practitioners of C&R but all they are doing is throwing back fish they don't consider worthy of their stomachs; those so called C&R fisherman throw C&R out the window when they hook a fish they consider of high food value.
Just from the anglers I met I would say 90% are phony C&R anglers, because they practice what I described above. Maybe I am just meeting bad anglers and my experiences do not truly reflect the pier and shore anglers in general.
Posted by giflet
First of all if STURGEON KING was able to catch nine sturgeon and decided to keep all of them, more power to him, If I was lucky enough to bag nine Halibut of legal size over a years time, believe me I would keep them also. Now this past weekend I was able to catch a very nice sized (20lb) shovelnose at Belmont pier in Long Beach, understanding that this is not a high value sport fish as DudeWMF may state but as I landed him, my son unhooked him and started lifting him over the side of the pier to release, a fellow fisherman from a ways down the pier began screaming at my son (not in a bad way or anything) not to let the fish go, he wanted it. He wanted to take the fish for his self and felt that if it was going to be released back what was the difference. Well my son and I are very much into C&R of all fish except for Halis of course (and bait fish), and I asked my son if he wanted to give it to the guy. My son’s reply was no way, so I told the guy it was going back in the water. He was noticeably upset. Oh well I caught the fish I can release the fish. Has this ever happened to anyone else????
You better wear a life jacket when joining this board, cause you can drown in information.
Posted by StripeSideChaser
Butts mature much quicker than sturgeon
Posted by og
Yes, I have received an evil eye and a dropped jaw many times (especially with stripers). I'm sure once you start to master a spot and/or species, and you have those nine or so fish, your “I'm observing the lowest common denominator of a legal minimum, so have at it feeling will change.” I hate to get corny but it's like the lesson Peter Parker learns in Spider Man of just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Or as the line from the movie goes (my kid loves it) “With great power comes great responsibility.”
Posted by STURGEON KING
Let Me Explain... For the people who understand where I am coming from thanks for your support. For the people who disagree with me what about this? A little while back a group of Russians got caught keeping Sturgeon Eggs and DFG considered them killing hundreds if not thousands of these awesome fish. What about Party boats with anywhere from 6-12 people on board that will catch as many sturgeon as they can for a living. I’m nowhere close to being a poacher, I turn those kinds of people in. When I catch a keeper Sturgeon I’m done, I don't even attempt to fish for other species either. Understand that when I’m not playing ball or working out, I’m always fishing. I live pretty much on top of the Carquinez Straits where a lot of sturgeon are caught every year. Why don't you ask a captain of a charter boat how many they bring home a year. I bet it's the nine I hauled in times that again. Not mentioning there are a lot of boats targeting these fish too. Also understand I put a lot of time in. Probably at least a good 75 days out of the year I spend sturgeon fishing. I have a big family and am pretty well known as a baseball player, there are plenty of people who I know that will enjoy a meal and I know by giving it to them it won’t go to waste. I didn't mean to start a congested topic where all anyone has to say is how I shouldn’t have kept all of them. I highly believe in catch and release but when I’m spending $13.00 a pound for grass shrimp of buying expensive eel on every trip, along with putting in all of the slow time when the bite isn't hot, it's hard to let such a golden opportunity just swim away. I guess some people think I’m trying to brag on how many sturgeon I caught last year or what a good fisherman I am. No way am I trying to do that. I just wanted to hear some other stats and what pier you people think hauls in the most Dinos in one year. Thanks to all the people like Giflet, John69, Red, Mel, etc. I appreciate your posts. For all the other people you guys are great people too, I don't understand how you blow so much smoke when you really don't even understand. It’s all good, no problems. I like you all, and this board a lot for all everyone has done and posted. Hopefully you understand where I am coming from!!!! Keep on fishing everyone and continue to keep those reports coming!!! Tim
Posted by Dude Wheres My Fish
Abalone divers use a similar argument. The abalone fishery is declining drastically in northern California and most abalone divers blame poachers for the decline, however according to DFG abalone take as a result of poaching is less than 2% of the total take, in reality the 50,000 plus abalone harvesters are to blame for the decline who obey the law.
50,000 X 24per year abalone = 1,200,000 abalone taken every year. The DFG has this kind of data from tracking the amount of abalone punch cards sold and counting the take on returned punch cards at the end of the season, unfortunately with Sturgeon the DFG has no accurate measure of how pressured the Sturgeon population is by sport angling.
As G-Dude stated having a punch card system for Sturgeon will allow DFG to gather data on the Sturgeon harvest by anglers. Some will argue that if a punch card system is put into place, legal Sturgeon will never be released, this is true, but how many anglers release legal Sturgeon now? The 75 plus days spent every year $13.00 for grass shrimp and buying expensive eel prevents anglers from just letting the fish "swim away".
By implementing an abalone punch card system to Sturgeon and limiting it to a certain amount of fish, the DFG will be able to gather the relevant data, and we will reach a balance between what boaters harvest and pier and shore anglers harvest.
Posted by johnthefisherman69
Hmmmm, I think I am gonna have to give ya guys about 10 cents worth on this one. Sturgeon King, I would go get checked for mercury poisoning if I was you or maybe not, maybe it helps your swing, don’t know. But for the rest of you guys, your averages on how long a sturgeon lasts is a little long. It all depends on the size of the sturgeon and its weight. I shouldn't have to state this though. The thing is I caught a 62” 45lb. or so sturgeon and its meat lasted me only one and a half months. The reason being is that I enjoy sharing my catch with other people who don’t fish or have the time to do it but may purely enjoy sturgeon meat. I see nothing wrong with sharing my catch with friends and family. My second sturgeon I kept last year went straight to the smoker. Let me just tell you that before I knew it POOOOF! All my precious smoked sturgeon was gone.
The total weight of the meat from these two fish was about 28 lbs. I consumed or gifted the meat away in about four months. By the way, not one piece of edible meat was wasted. Both heads were given to my friends who drive the catering trucks on the job sites where I work so that they could make soup with it. I do agree with you guys that the sturgeon is a magnificent creature but I also say that this board is not a good place for making someone look bad. Lets quit blowing smoke up other board members butts on this board. LOL Johnthefisherman
Posted by StripeSideChaser
I don't think anyone is "blowing smoke"...just trying to get people to consider others and the future. Good point about the mercury poisoning, though. On the other hand, if he keeps it up, we'll be able to use him as a thermometer! I fish, therefore I lie!
Posted by STURGEON KING
Bad StripeSideChaser Bad HEE HEE HEE. That was a good one. It took me a second to get it but once I understood its pretty funny. No worry’s, I watch how much I eat in a certain amount of time. The meat is spread through families and friends too. You better stick to your regular thermometers. That was a good one though guys!!! HEE HEE HEE HEE.... Tim
Posted by 2d
Even if you do consume all of the useable portions of the sturgeon, do you see the math problem in your response as applied to the original post?
Posted by giflet
This has nothing to do with math (at all) I can see if the guy was keeping shakers or oversized sturgies, OR GOING OVER HIS LIMITS ON A DAY’s CATCH. That’s one thing, but he is within the law stated by the DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME (dfg), that is the only math you need to figure this one out. Get off of the guys back. You better wear a life jacket when joining this board, cause you can drown in information.
Posted by StripeSideChaser
Giflet, nobody was getting on his back, just trying to present an opposing view with the hope of causing thought. If the guy is within the law, he can do whatever he wants! If he is breaking the law, he hopefully has enough sense not to report it here. That's one of the awesome things about this board, we can disagree, and yet have some good social intercourse, while airing our personal feelings about the topic! I fish, therefore I lie!
Posted by giflet
Agreed, I guess my troublesome morning at work drove me to vent a little, and what better way than to do so than amongst friends, sorry if I offended anyone with my sarcastic unneeded statement. And hey StripeSideChaser I like the line about social intercourse, is it ok to use that in the future (it’s great).
Posted by 2d
I agree that, if he's within the regs, he can do what he wants, however, I was just pointing out that, given johnthefisherman69’s rate of consumption, it would take sturgeon king 18 months to consume his nine keeper sturgies.
Posted by johnthefisherman69
Answer for 2D.Yes, I do see the problem with the math. At 6:30 am this morning my head wasn't all there. I thought all day long about the mayhem that might be erupting from the first few posts and all I have to say is in the future I will chaperone Sturgeon King and throw him and his fish back in the water. Only problem is when I fish with Tim he never hooks up, I do. Although, there were many times, we stared for hours at the end of our poles waiting for pumps and getting nothing. The most important thing here is the facts, neither one of us has gutted a sturgeon and found eggs. Why, because they get released. Next, we treat all shakers like precious babies. They are released without a photo being taken. This is so they spend less time out of the water. Next, is the fact that Tim was addicted to Sturgeon last year. I don’t think anyone here who has caught a sturgeon can say he wasn't addicted after catching one, let alone, having seen it at the end of your line and losing it. Times are obviously changing. That is all, johnthefisherman..
Posted by 2d
As I said in my post, I have no problem with an angler who acts legally (as I assume SK did). I just was pointing out that the numbers used to defend SK actually hurt him in this case.
Posted by tomaurand
Actually math HAS something to do with this issue. Say you get 20lbs of meat off nine keeper fish. That is 180 LBS of meat. You catch these fish in 75 days. The limit is one fish, that includes the one fish you caught yesterday that is already in your freezer. How does one eat 180 lbs of fish meat in 75 days and stay in the one fish legal possession limit? The math does NOT legally add up. Tom,
Proud Supporter of UPSAC.
Posted by STURGEON KING
Ok it’s a never ending war. Your averages are right but not all that meat goes in my freezer. Some people have friends and family’s and it just so happens I have a ton of them. The meat just doesn’t sit in the freezer for when I’m hungry. I keep a little meat and the rest goes to friends and family. I don’t eat 180 pounds of meat. It’s all spread around. Johnthefisherman69 has gotten quite a bit of meat. I don't understand how you bring this topic up as its illegal to keep my one sturgeon a day. Tell me how! I live by the laws, get off my back. None of this was the question. What pier do you think produces the most sturgeon a year was, I believe, the original question.
Posted by tomaurand
Sorry dude, Not trying to split hairs but the limit is not one fish a day. Its ONE fish period. I see your point and believe you are doing the right thing but having more than one sturgeon in the freezer is illegal. Even if you have a part of a fillet in the freezer and you catch and keep another dino technically you are in violation of the law. Again, not trying to flame or start any problems just saying what I feel from reading the posts. As for the question.....McNears... Tom, Proud Supporter of UPSAC.
Posted by Rock Hopper
I know plenty of people (from this board only!) that practice C&R regularly on high profile food fish. I've released all but three of the stripers I've ever caught, you wouldn't believe how many legal lings I've released from shore if I told you... not to mention from my kayak. If I ever catch a legal sturgeon it, and any other I ever catch, will be released. Out of all the legal cabbies I've ever caught I’ve only kept one (and cabs are my favorite local fish to eat). Out of the dozen or so legal ‘buts I've caught recently I've only kept four...and so on. So if you ever meet me you can say that you know two people who release the vast majority of ALL fish that they catch. ;-) Same goes for 'Slinger, Jason Chin, Nufo, Predator....the list goes on and on.
I do think keeping nine sturgeons in a season is quite a bit...but Mr. Sturgeon King didn't break any laws and maybe his family/friends really love a good sturgeon meal. No hard feelings or ill will from me... RöćK HòppéR – Thë Jẽ††Ỹ Jùnký, Proud supporter of UPSAC!
Posted by Red Fish
C&R by choice. While you are on the topic of C&R. I know some people that catch and release by selection. For instance, they catch something they don't like to eat and they throw it back. Then, other fish that they favor the taste of, they keep it. Another for instance, If someone catches what would be considered a desirable game-fish at a dump-site or basically a septic tank, and releases it because of the possibility of contamination, it is still C&R. At least one of the people you mentioned catches way over their limit, so they would have to release some of their catch under the law. And, some people just don't eat fish. I really wonder how many private boaters throw back legal fish that they catch on that one weekend day per week they go out?? I throw back a lot of “desirable” game-fish to some and keep things I desire like perch and salmon. Others I give to friends. Some, I try on occasions and share with others as to not consume more than the recommended amounts from biologists. Personally, I am disagreement with the current no minimum size limit on 7gill sharks and DFG agent Ed Roberts told me if I feel strongly enough about it, I should address my concerns directly to DFG advising me that they do listen to the comments of sport anglers. “The law is the law.” Uh, oh, I'm in trouble when I start quoting lines from Victor Hugo's works, LOL
Posted by pescare
Minor Correction: "I am disagreement with the current no minimum size limit on 7gill sharks and DFG agent Ed Roberts told me if I feel strongly enough about it, I should address my concerns directly to DFG advising me that they do listen to the comments of sport anglers." If I remember correctly, he suggested contacting the Fish and Game Commission. DFG does the enforcement, but the commission makes the decisions. Ed
Posted by pescare
Re: Most high value food sport fish are kept. Interesting observation. I'd probably agree, depending where you fish and who you fish with. I believe though, that this board still attracts an atypical audience and I'm sure there are more real C&R people here than you would find on any given day at any given pier. As others have mentioned here, I too have raised eyebrows and heard snide comments when releasing a keeper "value" fish in front of a more typical group of meat anglers. Like RockHopper, I know LOTS of real C&R anglers that use this board and I admire every one of them for it. I've certainly got nothing against legally keeping your catch, but I wish more would give a thought to putting a good fish back once in a while. Ed
Posted by surfcaster
Geez! Sounds like the PETA board! You are right! Others are wrong! So it's okay to enforce you own values on others!
Posted by StripeSideChaser
I don't think anyone has enforced anything...you haven't seen any of these posts removed, nor the poster blocked, or even threatened. Just a bunch of different "fisherpeople" (pc version) giving their differing opinions. Remember, opinions are like ... (you know the rest). I fish, therefore I lie!
Posted by Red Fish
I usually average one or two keepers a year from shore. When I catch one keeper, I stop for that day and go home. I am sure if I was to continue fishing I could probably add more to my scorecard for that day. But I don't concentrate that much time to sturgeon fishing alone. I divide up my time with bass, shark and flounder as well. I have caught as many as (5) sturgeon in one day off of a boat (shakers and keeper).
A number of places can be good when the conditions are right. For one, fish stack up on the South and North end where they have nowhere else to go. Napa River in the North, and the marshes such as Alviso and Coyote in the South. Anywhere on the Cuanang map is a good location when you figure out where they are moving. McNear's (San Pedro Pt.) is one of the easiest (most consistent) piers to hook up
Posted by gyozadude
Best sturgeon piers in the Bay? This is really a toss up, because there are piers that are more consistent than others during certain seasons, but then there are piers that can see dozens pulled out in a weekend during the herring spawn.
During the winter, I'd have to say that if we're talking pure numbers, on average, it's a wash between North/East Bay and the Peninsula. You've got Eckley, Pinole, Vallejo, Alameda Rockwall. We've got Oyster Pt., Candlestick, Sierra Point, and most of all Coyote Pt. (which is a Jetty, but the outermost seawall and therefore a pier — two rods okay, no license needed to answer another question someone posted). The former set of piers tend to be consistent throughout winter and spring. The latter are hot for two week stints and then die down. But the numbers caught on the Peninsula are perhaps higher because during the herring spawn, if they come in close, the sturgeon are right under them and as reported this year at Coyote Pt., there were over 40 sturgeon taken in just one night out at the jetty. On average, that's as much sturgeon taken in one night at Coyote that Alameda or Pinole might see in two months!
During the Spring and into late spring, the Sac-Delta spots are probably hotter than the rest of the spots and I'd argue that Montezuma and Grizzly Island are best.
And for overall consistency year round, the South Bay, with a number of marshlands and local creek drainages and treated fresh water drainages offers the most consistent year-round action. Late fall/first winter rains down in the south bay are also an attraction for sturgeons and Dumbarton, Fremont Forebay, Ravenswood, East Palo Alto, Bayfront, Redwood City are have either piers or shoreline spots that can offer consistent catches of cruising sturgeons.
As for the discussion of C-n-R and keeping sturgeon, all I can say is that you're well within the DFG regulations to keep one fish a day, and possess one fish at any time. If you follow that rule and spread the joy of sturgeon meat to friends and family, well, more power to you. I personally haven't eaten anything out of the Bay since 1986, although I have kept fish and given them away to others from the Bay, but less than twice in the last 10 years, and simply because I'm not very eager to eat Bay fish. Too much known risk for me (although I gotta ask myself why I still eat burgers and fast junk food...
). But if folks want to do that, and the law allows them, then it's just my opinion on CnR and you should feel no shame or compulsion to change.That said, however, we should know that the fecundity of sturgeon is quite low. They're almost like humans. They don't sexually mature until their 11 years old. The mean doubling time for white sturgeon (Acipenser transmontanus) is 14 years, and that, I assume includes some contribution from the older, larger breeders that may live to 104 years of age. So what this means is that if we remove larger breeders and keep more than 7% of the total population of adult sturgeon per year, basically, we're going to wipe out the species pretty soon, regardless of the DFG regulations.
I'd argue that if folks head up the Fraser River towards Chilliwack, British Columbia, there are still fish over 10 ft that can be hooked. But the Canadians are already banning any keeping of sturgeon and there is talk of a complete moratorium even on C-n-R because of harm to sturgeon during a prolonged fight. So they've got lots of big sturgeon up there, and fewer people putting pressure on these big dinos, but the Canucks have deemed it fit to limit sturgeon take to zero keepers, and C-n-R only for now, with possibility of complete closure to all take.
Does this warrant any action by DFG? I hope they're monitoring it closely. One idea that might satisfy people for now is a sturgeon punch card. This will limit people to keeping perhaps a maximum of five sport caught sturgeon per year. The fish cannot be given away under a punch card system, because the angler must keep-it first in order to give it to someone, who must also possess a punch card. And children must also carry punch cards as well. Fish caught and kept must be recorded immediately and failure to do so would be a punishable offense as with other punch cards.
Gyozadude - Proud UPSAC Member, "Yes - I can roll potsticker skins"
Posted by Nufo
One of the top most productive piers (year round) for sturgeon is in the south bay. The thing is only maybe 10 people on this board know its name and where it is. Others may have heard of it but will never find it. I bet even Ken Jones himself has never heard its name or if he has, he has no idea where to find it. It cannot be found on the east or the west. The very south is where it rests. Nufo
Posted by tom barrett
My guess is McNears for total numbers in a year.
Posted by gyozadude
What do you think the catch rate is at McNears? I think places like Dumbarton might pull out one sturgeon per week or less on average, but that's because of its accessibility. That’d put it up in the 40-50 sturgeon per year. But if we normalized it with the number of anglers there fishing for sturgeon and number of days people fish per week, I'd have to guess that it's about 1 sturgeon per 10 man-days of fishing for one sturgeon. Which isn't bad.
I'm sure at McNears and Eckley, there's gotta be dozens of folks targeting sturgeon every day and there may be one or two at the most. So normalized for folks with sturgeon rigs fishing sturgeon bait (i.e. shrimp and/or herring) the normalized catch rate isn't that much better.
What would be really interesting is if they allowed Werder Pier in San Mateo to open and folks were allowed to fish just short of the channel. I'm pretty certain that you'd see that quickly become a hot spot for sturgeon. Gyozadude - Proud UPSAC Member
"Yes - I can roll potsticker skins"
Posted by johnthefisherman69
My Favorite Thread so far
Posted by STURGEON KING
Thanks Gyozadude, The Topic Needs To Change!!!
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