Date: July 24, 1999
To: Pier Fishing In California
From: MikeA
Subject: (1) Saltwater Aquariums—Is This Legal? and (2) Pier Behavior
There is a guy that goes out to Seal Beach Pier (anyone who fishes there has to know him). Tall, always wears Camoflage pants. He brings with him a big blue tub with an aerator hooked to a car battery. He keeps anything he catches (pinbacks, 8-inch greys, 15-in Leopards etc.) and takes them home to his 175-gallon aquarium. He is really in your face, will set the hook on anyone’s rod that’s nearby, runs up and takes your fish off of the hook before you can do anything and tries to get you to give him the fish, etc. It's obvious I have issues with other people touching my stuff without my permission, and obviously I think he is very annoying, but is the part about taking home all the fish actually legal?
Posted by Ken Jones
Although it is legal to take home fish to an aquarium, he still has to follow all the fish and game laws including number of fish and minimum size restrictions where they exist (ex: lengths for leopard sharks). Doesn’t sound like a sportsman, and certainly not a “pier rat,” and will, I imagine, eventually do his fish-removing act to someone who is not as much a gentlemen as yourself — and will pay the consequences. He should not set another person’s hook, should not remove fish, etc. and should be told the same. And if you see him break the fish and game laws I would recommend a call to Cal Tip.
Since most cities do a poor job of policing the piers, it is up to each of the members of the Loyal Fraternity of Pier Rats to take care of our piers -- and fish. Best wishes, Ken
Posted by MikeA
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter (kidding). What is this Caltip? I have never heard of it, and would very much like to stop this gent from raping the waters I fish.
Posted by goatfish
Mike, In response to your question, the number for CalTip is 1-888-DFG-CALTIP (1-888-334-2258). You can call 24hrs. a day, 7 days a week. I once turned in this guy on OB pier that had a bucket full of lobster he was catching on his rod and reel, and out of season (major no-no) I'm sure it turned out to be a mighty expensive non-dinner for him (lobster poachers beware!) and I would have no qualms about turning in this jerk on SB pier if he was poaching or doing something illegal, but not before I inform him that his actions are illegal. Although it is incumbent upon all of us as pier rats to know the rules of the game, I find that some people really just don't know what is right and wrong on the pier. The guy with the lobsters was warned by me more than once that what he was doing was against the law and he told me to “shut up and mind my own business” so I took my business to CalTip! As far as the guy on Seal Beach pier, if he ever touches my gear, he'll get a nice whoopin’ from my Seeker. Ok, maybe not- I might break my rod tip, but what he is doing is very uncool and he should certainly be made aware of that fact. Besides, (and maybe you can help me out here, Ken) I thought transportation of live game fish in California was illegal. Are these not considered game fish by the DFG, or does that only apply to inland bodies of water?
Posted by Zorro
Can be done legally if you have a large enough aquarium and select the right fish, it is also educational and not harmful to the fish. Non-migratory species are required! Mackerel and the like will not do well. Misc. sculpins, gobies, crabs, sand dabs, starfish and surf perches do well. Very small dog sharks, and rays will also work. The leopard shark unfortunately looks like the bamboo shark which is a popular aquarium shark, the leopard will probably not do well, any aquarium-size leopard will be illegal. Still there are people that keep, staghorn sculpins, sarcastic fringe heads, gobies, and sand dabs as pets, and if you have a ray they can become really tame.
Posted by Ken Jones
I agree with Goatfish that saltwater aquariums are fun and that many of our fish can be kept in them. What I object to is the indiscriminate taking of fish by some people, especially if they break the law. And, I object to the behavior described in the initial message. As for Cal Tip, it is the telephone number used to report people who are breaking the law (poaching, polluting, etc.). The number is 1 888 DFG-CALTIP.
www.dfg.ca.gov
Posted by Dave McD
Check the Dept. of Fish & Game website for regulations, phone numbers, etc. Sounds like this guy is in serious need of some adjustments.... might I recommend pepper spray and baseball bats? Dave
Posted by MikeA
Easy now, no panic intended. I don’t want to start a flamorama, and no vigilante groups are to form and head for SB Pier! I personally like aquariums a great deal. Coming from a mostly freshwater background, I thought the not transporting gamefish thing was standard everywhere. I walked up one night, looked into the tank (at the 13-inch Leopard shark) and said “isn't that illegal?” to which he just walked away. I have no problem carving on, or pier gaffing, anyone who touches my stuff (including a fish I just caught), but to stop the illegal stuff, I will do my research (thanks for the info), inform him, and if need be follow him to his car to get a license plate. While he is a freak, he appears to be a fairly harmless one.
Posted by Dave McD
I have two aquariums myself and as long as the guy stays within legal boundaries, no problem there... the other half of the response is voicing my opinion that people still have a right to defend their property, including their fishing gear, while in a public location. If someone went snooping through your car while parked in a public parking lot, without permission or consent, asking to keep tools, spare tires, CD's, etc., pocketing what he wanted, and/or tampering with anything, do you think people would object to you pepper spraying the culprit? Especially a chronic offender? I take my four year old fishing and if anyone messes with her or our gear like you described, I would have to judge the situation as I perceive it, and if I deem it necessary, using forceful means are well within my acceptable responses to someone physically messing with me, my family, or my property. You might try telling the guy to stop, once, but I'm assuming people have tried this and this guy just doesn't care. We do live in America, but that does not not give this guy the right or freedom to impose on others in this fashion. You DO have the right to defend yourself and your property. Dave
Posted by MikeA
I fully understand. My father passed away on April 25, 1999. I have fished with him my entire life. A garage full of rods and reels and lures was my inheritance. I have Kunan rods (company is out of business) that he custom wrapped. They are worth quite a bit already, and to me they are priceless. Anyone touching my stuff without my prior expressed opinion goes directly to the hospital without passing go. I was just afraid of a group of pissed off fishermen, wielding *very* sharp fillet knives, hitting Seal Beach Pier one night and hurting a fellow whose biggest fault is a lack of social skills, and or knowledge of the rules. If I insulted anyone, I apologize.
Posted by Ken Jones
This has been an interesting discussion! In all my years of fishing the piers I have never been involved in, or witnessed, a fight on a pier. I have seen people get upset from tangles, or people cutting into someone else's space — but no fights. However, some people are jerks and violence has occurred at many piers — just like in everyday society. In fact, there was apparently a murder at the Ravenswood Pier and that is why that pier is now closed.
I see the role of pier rats as being that of educators — teaching neophyte anglers how to fish, lending a hand or advice when needed, helping to see that fish and game laws are observed, etc. I only see pier rats as policing the piers in a limited fashion, and certainly not engaging in any type of violent acts; that's the kind of thing we're trying to stop.
In regard to this particular individual: (1) Take a copy of the fish and game laws booklet with you the next time you visit the pier. If he breaks a law hand him the booklet and mention that he should read it because it may save him a big fine. DO IT IN A POLITE MANNER. If he refuses the help simply let him be but don’t be afraid to call Cal Tip. (2) If he grabs your rod, or someone else’s rod, politely but firmly let him know that such actions are unacceptable. If he continues, notify the authorities. I believe this original message concerned the Seal Beach Pier and I believe there is a police sub station at the foot of the pier. I would talk to the officers there, get their input, and see if they could help. It's unfortunate that actions such as this interfere with what should be a relaxing recreational activity but people will be people and some are smart while some are stupid, some are good while some are bad — at least in their actions.
Hopefully though, over a period of time, the actions of our pier rat fraternity can lead to better behavior (and of course more successful fishing).
Tight lines for all, Ken
Posted by LaughingClam
or.. just include a magic marker in your bucket and find a large piece of cardboard and make a ominous sign that says “Chronic Poacher” or “Get Your Undersized Fish Here,” etc. add an arrow that points to him and set it close by. Let him incur the public celebrity from everyone walking on the pier.
To: Pier Fishing In California
From: MikeA
Subject: (1) Saltwater Aquariums—Is This Legal? and (2) Pier Behavior
There is a guy that goes out to Seal Beach Pier (anyone who fishes there has to know him). Tall, always wears Camoflage pants. He brings with him a big blue tub with an aerator hooked to a car battery. He keeps anything he catches (pinbacks, 8-inch greys, 15-in Leopards etc.) and takes them home to his 175-gallon aquarium. He is really in your face, will set the hook on anyone’s rod that’s nearby, runs up and takes your fish off of the hook before you can do anything and tries to get you to give him the fish, etc. It's obvious I have issues with other people touching my stuff without my permission, and obviously I think he is very annoying, but is the part about taking home all the fish actually legal?
Posted by Ken Jones
Although it is legal to take home fish to an aquarium, he still has to follow all the fish and game laws including number of fish and minimum size restrictions where they exist (ex: lengths for leopard sharks). Doesn’t sound like a sportsman, and certainly not a “pier rat,” and will, I imagine, eventually do his fish-removing act to someone who is not as much a gentlemen as yourself — and will pay the consequences. He should not set another person’s hook, should not remove fish, etc. and should be told the same. And if you see him break the fish and game laws I would recommend a call to Cal Tip.
Since most cities do a poor job of policing the piers, it is up to each of the members of the Loyal Fraternity of Pier Rats to take care of our piers -- and fish. Best wishes, Ken
Posted by MikeA
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter (kidding). What is this Caltip? I have never heard of it, and would very much like to stop this gent from raping the waters I fish.
Posted by goatfish
Mike, In response to your question, the number for CalTip is 1-888-DFG-CALTIP (1-888-334-2258). You can call 24hrs. a day, 7 days a week. I once turned in this guy on OB pier that had a bucket full of lobster he was catching on his rod and reel, and out of season (major no-no) I'm sure it turned out to be a mighty expensive non-dinner for him (lobster poachers beware!) and I would have no qualms about turning in this jerk on SB pier if he was poaching or doing something illegal, but not before I inform him that his actions are illegal. Although it is incumbent upon all of us as pier rats to know the rules of the game, I find that some people really just don't know what is right and wrong on the pier. The guy with the lobsters was warned by me more than once that what he was doing was against the law and he told me to “shut up and mind my own business” so I took my business to CalTip! As far as the guy on Seal Beach pier, if he ever touches my gear, he'll get a nice whoopin’ from my Seeker. Ok, maybe not- I might break my rod tip, but what he is doing is very uncool and he should certainly be made aware of that fact. Besides, (and maybe you can help me out here, Ken) I thought transportation of live game fish in California was illegal. Are these not considered game fish by the DFG, or does that only apply to inland bodies of water?
Posted by Zorro
Can be done legally if you have a large enough aquarium and select the right fish, it is also educational and not harmful to the fish. Non-migratory species are required! Mackerel and the like will not do well. Misc. sculpins, gobies, crabs, sand dabs, starfish and surf perches do well. Very small dog sharks, and rays will also work. The leopard shark unfortunately looks like the bamboo shark which is a popular aquarium shark, the leopard will probably not do well, any aquarium-size leopard will be illegal. Still there are people that keep, staghorn sculpins, sarcastic fringe heads, gobies, and sand dabs as pets, and if you have a ray they can become really tame.
Posted by Ken Jones
I agree with Goatfish that saltwater aquariums are fun and that many of our fish can be kept in them. What I object to is the indiscriminate taking of fish by some people, especially if they break the law. And, I object to the behavior described in the initial message. As for Cal Tip, it is the telephone number used to report people who are breaking the law (poaching, polluting, etc.). The number is 1 888 DFG-CALTIP.
www.dfg.ca.gov
Posted by Dave McD
Check the Dept. of Fish & Game website for regulations, phone numbers, etc. Sounds like this guy is in serious need of some adjustments.... might I recommend pepper spray and baseball bats? Dave
Posted by MikeA
Easy now, no panic intended. I don’t want to start a flamorama, and no vigilante groups are to form and head for SB Pier! I personally like aquariums a great deal. Coming from a mostly freshwater background, I thought the not transporting gamefish thing was standard everywhere. I walked up one night, looked into the tank (at the 13-inch Leopard shark) and said “isn't that illegal?” to which he just walked away. I have no problem carving on, or pier gaffing, anyone who touches my stuff (including a fish I just caught), but to stop the illegal stuff, I will do my research (thanks for the info), inform him, and if need be follow him to his car to get a license plate. While he is a freak, he appears to be a fairly harmless one.
Posted by Dave McD
I have two aquariums myself and as long as the guy stays within legal boundaries, no problem there... the other half of the response is voicing my opinion that people still have a right to defend their property, including their fishing gear, while in a public location. If someone went snooping through your car while parked in a public parking lot, without permission or consent, asking to keep tools, spare tires, CD's, etc., pocketing what he wanted, and/or tampering with anything, do you think people would object to you pepper spraying the culprit? Especially a chronic offender? I take my four year old fishing and if anyone messes with her or our gear like you described, I would have to judge the situation as I perceive it, and if I deem it necessary, using forceful means are well within my acceptable responses to someone physically messing with me, my family, or my property. You might try telling the guy to stop, once, but I'm assuming people have tried this and this guy just doesn't care. We do live in America, but that does not not give this guy the right or freedom to impose on others in this fashion. You DO have the right to defend yourself and your property. Dave
Posted by MikeA
I fully understand. My father passed away on April 25, 1999. I have fished with him my entire life. A garage full of rods and reels and lures was my inheritance. I have Kunan rods (company is out of business) that he custom wrapped. They are worth quite a bit already, and to me they are priceless. Anyone touching my stuff without my prior expressed opinion goes directly to the hospital without passing go. I was just afraid of a group of pissed off fishermen, wielding *very* sharp fillet knives, hitting Seal Beach Pier one night and hurting a fellow whose biggest fault is a lack of social skills, and or knowledge of the rules. If I insulted anyone, I apologize.
Posted by Ken Jones
This has been an interesting discussion! In all my years of fishing the piers I have never been involved in, or witnessed, a fight on a pier. I have seen people get upset from tangles, or people cutting into someone else's space — but no fights. However, some people are jerks and violence has occurred at many piers — just like in everyday society. In fact, there was apparently a murder at the Ravenswood Pier and that is why that pier is now closed.
I see the role of pier rats as being that of educators — teaching neophyte anglers how to fish, lending a hand or advice when needed, helping to see that fish and game laws are observed, etc. I only see pier rats as policing the piers in a limited fashion, and certainly not engaging in any type of violent acts; that's the kind of thing we're trying to stop.
In regard to this particular individual: (1) Take a copy of the fish and game laws booklet with you the next time you visit the pier. If he breaks a law hand him the booklet and mention that he should read it because it may save him a big fine. DO IT IN A POLITE MANNER. If he refuses the help simply let him be but don’t be afraid to call Cal Tip. (2) If he grabs your rod, or someone else’s rod, politely but firmly let him know that such actions are unacceptable. If he continues, notify the authorities. I believe this original message concerned the Seal Beach Pier and I believe there is a police sub station at the foot of the pier. I would talk to the officers there, get their input, and see if they could help. It's unfortunate that actions such as this interfere with what should be a relaxing recreational activity but people will be people and some are smart while some are stupid, some are good while some are bad — at least in their actions.
Hopefully though, over a period of time, the actions of our pier rat fraternity can lead to better behavior (and of course more successful fishing).
Tight lines for all, Ken
Posted by LaughingClam
or.. just include a magic marker in your bucket and find a large piece of cardboard and make a ominous sign that says “Chronic Poacher” or “Get Your Undersized Fish Here,” etc. add an arrow that points to him and set it close by. Let him incur the public celebrity from everyone walking on the pier.