Date: October 27, 2003
To: Pier Fishing In California Message Board
From: Ken Jones
Subject: Question For The Day: Bait & Tackle Shops
If you were describing the "perfect" bait and tackle shop, what would it need?
Posted by Sinker
Home Improvement Center. It would need the Checks Made out to, the Name on the Receipts, and the Name showing up on the Credit Card bill as So & So's Home Improvement Center. That might keep me out of trouble...
Posted by pescare
Could lead to trouble though When your wife asks, "Just who's house have you been improving? I don't see any work going on around here!"
Posted by Sinker
Yeah never thought of that - back to the drawing board.
Posted by Songslinger
I have a friend who says he got his wife to stop complaining about his fishing finances by opening the closet door and pointing to all her shoes and clothes. Enough said!
Posted by gyozadude
Oh, touche! And 3 years later, that pump still won't be useful catching stripers off San Quentin! But on a more practical note, for a perfect bait/tackle shop, I'd look at a row of 3 or 4 automatic vending machines with Internet and 976-dial connections. Status and purchases can be made by phone or Internet on line and automatically dispensed, even at odd hours. The mechanisms would be behind steel mesh and polycarbonate shields with slots facing the outside. Get bait, drinks, sandwiches and other snacks. Bait means frozen chovies, frozen shrimp, or frozen squid.
Inside the shop would only need about 500 sq. feet of space about 25 ft x 20 feet. A single glass/solid counter about 25 feet long and U shaped with a wall shelf and tall bar stool with back rest next to end of the where the point-of-sale system is located. A fridge with live bait is located behind the counter and close to the register. Limited lure size and selection targeting local and seasonal species are available. Most inventory is located behind the counter or under polycarbonate (5/8" thick minimum).
Photos and bulletin board on the inside walls on either side of the entry door. Security system and cameras all over the place. They broadband to upload pics and snapshots to a remote server far away from the current location. 24/7 surveillance of 2 cameras and audio outside, and 2 inside the store. Alarm system and siren and emergency alert to police programmed in.
Back area behind the counter provides a space for a few staff to walk and get items. Inventory is kept under and above the counter, and along the back wall. Back wall has 1.5 feet depth of wall shelving along the entire wall. However, a mid-section about 10 feet long has cupboards underneath and a flat work surface above with rod motor and wrapping stand and rod drying rack spinning behind it. Above is a 8” deep shelves with rod and reel repair supplies (e.g. small springs, shims, washers, smoothie drag washer assortment, extra guides, etc..)
Two doors into the shop. Need one for customers, the other for staff to go in and out. Both have visibility to the outside.
Gyozadude, "Yes - I roll my own potsticker skins"
Posted by Songslinger
And... let's not forget about a back room with a cracker barrel for the old so-and-so campaigners to sit and shoot the breeze. Admission could be charged for those 40 and under! (Siddown, shudup and learn somethin, youngster!) Searching For Serenity
Posted by gyozadude
My layout has no back room Here's my layout for the proposed shop. Small, to the point, focused on customer service without a lot of frills. Inventory would have to be shipped and stored elsewhere since there isn't much space for even the tackle. 25' x 20'
I would like to have the shop serve some hot chocolate, coffee, and espresso at reasonable prices for anglers needing to get their caffeine fix. I've seen some great machines that are extremely compact and high tech, that grind their own beans in fact.
Lavatories would have to be separate or attached outside, but close by. As for the inventory I'd carry, I'd probably carry the selected casting and spinning reels from Abu, Penn, Shimano and Okuma. I'd probably carry some Daiwa BeefSticks and Sealine-X rods, and Shakespeare Ugly Sticks, hooks from size 10 - 6/0 mostly by Eagle Claw, and a variety of beads, swivels from any wholesaler and Izor line and power pro braid.
The lure selection would be seasonal. Plastics would be limited primarily to big hammers and some tube baits and grubs. Then there'd be the obligatory spinners, spoons, shrimp fly rigs, and crank baits and RTLs.
I'd try to source live bait like grass and ghost shrimp, pile worms and anchovies. And my vendor of preserved or prepared baits would be none other than peoples' bait, specializing in brine cured chovies, mackerel, and herring.
Gyozadude, "Yes - I roll my own potsticker skins"
Posted by Red Fish
Hey, isn't that the floor plan for Hi's Tackle Box
Posted by gyozadude
Hi's must have at least 200 sq ft more of floor space! This just seems like the obvious thing to do. And the cameras are hidden. I don't think Hi's has an espresso counter next to his reels though.
Gyozadude, "Yes - I roll my own potsticker skins"
Posted by r4616
But where are the photos/bulletin board and all the security cameras in your picture? Apparently you spend way too much time thinking about this... Does your wife know you spend time doodling pictures of tackle shops? Just joking... But I do love the idea of the bait dispensers, I would love to be able to get bait anytime of day instead of worrying about when a place closes... Also, I would think you would need a bigger space then 20 by 25 (or whatever). Seems like you would get like 5 customers in there and it would get crowded pretty fast.
Posted by gyozadude
My wife thinks it’s a computer lab bench layout.
Posted by stumpysez
I agree, I'd use the 24 hour frozen bait dispensers. I think that's brilliant. I don't know how cost effective it would be, but what the hey. Operating costs shouldn't be too bad, but the up front costs might be a little steep, and I don't know what kind of profit margin frozen bait has. On the other hand, you would have an absolute corner on the late-night-frozen-anchovy market. I'd probably use the machines just because I have a hard time making it to a bait shop during business hours, and I like buying frozen bait on my way home.
Heck, if you could make vending machines like that, ones that were secure and could handle a little abuse, setting them up at the feet of piers up and down the coast would be a pretty good gig. Just have to check them every now and again to restock. Again, I don't know just how hard it would be to set up a vending freezer unit. Seems like prime vandal territory, harder to control if they're at many spots rather than at your armor-plated tackle shop. -B
Posted by gyozadude
Impetus for the design. The whole design is geared toward placement on a pier, such as what the San Mateo (Werder) pier would be. The orientation, however, would require that the shop be overhanging the edge a bit. The doors would open up toward either end of the pier, and with about 10 feet overhanging the pier, I'd still have about 10 feet wide walking path around the structure. The other option is to have doors on either side and widen the deck of the pier around either side by 5 feet each and orient the doorways sideways.
The vending machines can be protected by having longer chutes and to put metal grates in front of them. Much like a road side rest stop that has remote vending machines. And instead of taking cash, the system would rely on a cell-phone. People would dial the number and get billed on their phone bill for the item. Then there's no cash and no reason to break in to steal the cash.
As far as vending machines go, they pay for themselves because the labor costs are zero. There are ice cream vending machines these days already. The key is finding a supplier of bait that can package bait to fit the vending machine. Other than that, it's just a capital cost. And if we had cameras posted out there with remote recording elsewhere on the network, thieves would have to be pretty stupid to try something where I'd have a 1024x768 image of the perp trying to steal or break something in a 360 degree circle around the shop. Gyozadude, "Yes - I roll my own potsticker skins"
Posted by Mikey
500 sq. feet is pretty small I think. My shop is 900 sq. feet, and we have a rod - wrapping station, and a little office, where we store additional things. It's barely enough space to carry what everyone wants - but we can order it if we don't have it. We do have a back shelf though, and that helps. We get 6 people + in there, and it gets kinda crowded with all the aisles and rod racks and stuff. Cameras are helpful. I'm not so sure about the automatic bait machine, it just seems like something else that could malfunction. you'd have to call the machine guy out to fix the problem, meanwhile losing business because people couldn’t just open a fridge and pull out a bag of anchovies. Live bait is hard to maintain especially when sellers impose "minimum" numbers. Hehe, it's not easy. Mike
Posted by crawford23
I’m gonna tell you that after talking with Sinker he has the best idea for a tackle shop that I have ever heard. Too bad he’s going to Florida.
Posted bySongslinger
STOCK —The inventory should reflect the local species and style of fishing, and not the stock levels suggested by a corporate office. (For a recent and glaring example, if one is looking for salmon spinner lures within the Ocean Bay District, then there should be single barbless hooks available and not just trebles.)
The items should be arranged in a sensible manner and categorized accordingly. Labels and placards are helpful.
Fishing line must be kept out of the blaze of overhead lighting.
Rods and reels ought to be available in moderate to expensive price ranges. Cheap stuff isn't a serious consideration; and super elitist professional gear can also take up unnecessary space. Real equipment for real anglers.
STAFF — The personnel should be comprised of people who fish and know the area well from shore to pier to skiff to ship. Staff members ought to be friendly and genuinely helpful, more interested in making the right matches than in making a sale. And, above all, they need to know their limitations and not let BS rule their performance: if you don't know, say so and save time, and, even better, try to find an answer from someone else. Honesty works wonders. So does listening. And enthusiasm, a true love for fishing, will create more revenue and return business than hard sell tactics or, worse, snobbery and indifference.
LOCATION — Easy access and plenty of parking. I do not wish to go on a treasure hunt when I'm looking for a new shop.
HOURS — Open early and closing late will help. The fish nor tides do not wait upon the 9-5 world. Neither should customers.
Posted by dunbarton dave
I want Slinger's store in Fremont or Newark. 5:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. would work. dm
Posted by Davey jones
I agree... But there should be enough tackle, bait. Etc. whereas the charter boat does not take every frozen squid on the shelf and all the 4-oz sinkers. Maybe the supply room could cater to the larger buyers/contracts. Also a Bragging Board/Info Board that is kept current. Maps..Maps..Maps; supply information that is real time and build your business from referals and word of mouth. Food!
Posted by eelmaster
Polite employees Which is ironic coming from me. But a bait store that I frequent in Petaluma employs this one guy who is the most unplesant guy I have ever met. He will tell me they are out of live bait when I can see the friggin fish swimming around behind him. This really makes me mad, as I drive a 1/2 hour extra on my way to Tomales to stop at this place. Other than that I just ask for a large selection of live bait and lures at reasonable prices.
Posted by prometheus
An outdoorsman’s shop in Iowa had a 1,000 gallon tank with bass, walleye, catfish, crappies, etc. in it. I’d put in such a tank with stripers and rockfish. Customers would go out of their way to come to see the fis
h. Maybe a bit bigger than the one I saw though, it was 4x4x8ft tall. Perhaps 12x4x8.
Posted by snookie
It would need a person with lots of fishing knowledge to stock the place. His fishing knowledge should include people working there who have fishing knowledge as well for the customer’s questions.
Snookie
To: Pier Fishing In California Message Board
From: Ken Jones
Subject: Question For The Day: Bait & Tackle Shops
If you were describing the "perfect" bait and tackle shop, what would it need?
Posted by Sinker
Home Improvement Center. It would need the Checks Made out to, the Name on the Receipts, and the Name showing up on the Credit Card bill as So & So's Home Improvement Center. That might keep me out of trouble...
Posted by pescare
Could lead to trouble though When your wife asks, "Just who's house have you been improving? I don't see any work going on around here!"
Posted by Sinker
Yeah never thought of that - back to the drawing board.
Posted by Songslinger
I have a friend who says he got his wife to stop complaining about his fishing finances by opening the closet door and pointing to all her shoes and clothes. Enough said!
Posted by gyozadude
Oh, touche! And 3 years later, that pump still won't be useful catching stripers off San Quentin! But on a more practical note, for a perfect bait/tackle shop, I'd look at a row of 3 or 4 automatic vending machines with Internet and 976-dial connections. Status and purchases can be made by phone or Internet on line and automatically dispensed, even at odd hours. The mechanisms would be behind steel mesh and polycarbonate shields with slots facing the outside. Get bait, drinks, sandwiches and other snacks. Bait means frozen chovies, frozen shrimp, or frozen squid.
Inside the shop would only need about 500 sq. feet of space about 25 ft x 20 feet. A single glass/solid counter about 25 feet long and U shaped with a wall shelf and tall bar stool with back rest next to end of the where the point-of-sale system is located. A fridge with live bait is located behind the counter and close to the register. Limited lure size and selection targeting local and seasonal species are available. Most inventory is located behind the counter or under polycarbonate (5/8" thick minimum).
Photos and bulletin board on the inside walls on either side of the entry door. Security system and cameras all over the place. They broadband to upload pics and snapshots to a remote server far away from the current location. 24/7 surveillance of 2 cameras and audio outside, and 2 inside the store. Alarm system and siren and emergency alert to police programmed in.
Back area behind the counter provides a space for a few staff to walk and get items. Inventory is kept under and above the counter, and along the back wall. Back wall has 1.5 feet depth of wall shelving along the entire wall. However, a mid-section about 10 feet long has cupboards underneath and a flat work surface above with rod motor and wrapping stand and rod drying rack spinning behind it. Above is a 8” deep shelves with rod and reel repair supplies (e.g. small springs, shims, washers, smoothie drag washer assortment, extra guides, etc..)
Two doors into the shop. Need one for customers, the other for staff to go in and out. Both have visibility to the outside.
Gyozadude, "Yes - I roll my own potsticker skins"
Posted by Songslinger
And... let's not forget about a back room with a cracker barrel for the old so-and-so campaigners to sit and shoot the breeze. Admission could be charged for those 40 and under! (Siddown, shudup and learn somethin, youngster!) Searching For Serenity
Posted by gyozadude
My layout has no back room Here's my layout for the proposed shop. Small, to the point, focused on customer service without a lot of frills. Inventory would have to be shipped and stored elsewhere since there isn't much space for even the tackle. 25' x 20'
I would like to have the shop serve some hot chocolate, coffee, and espresso at reasonable prices for anglers needing to get their caffeine fix. I've seen some great machines that are extremely compact and high tech, that grind their own beans in fact.
Lavatories would have to be separate or attached outside, but close by. As for the inventory I'd carry, I'd probably carry the selected casting and spinning reels from Abu, Penn, Shimano and Okuma. I'd probably carry some Daiwa BeefSticks and Sealine-X rods, and Shakespeare Ugly Sticks, hooks from size 10 - 6/0 mostly by Eagle Claw, and a variety of beads, swivels from any wholesaler and Izor line and power pro braid.
The lure selection would be seasonal. Plastics would be limited primarily to big hammers and some tube baits and grubs. Then there'd be the obligatory spinners, spoons, shrimp fly rigs, and crank baits and RTLs.
I'd try to source live bait like grass and ghost shrimp, pile worms and anchovies. And my vendor of preserved or prepared baits would be none other than peoples' bait, specializing in brine cured chovies, mackerel, and herring.
Gyozadude, "Yes - I roll my own potsticker skins"
Posted by Red Fish
Hey, isn't that the floor plan for Hi's Tackle Box
Posted by gyozadude
Hi's must have at least 200 sq ft more of floor space! This just seems like the obvious thing to do. And the cameras are hidden. I don't think Hi's has an espresso counter next to his reels though.
Gyozadude, "Yes - I roll my own potsticker skins"
Posted by r4616
But where are the photos/bulletin board and all the security cameras in your picture? Apparently you spend way too much time thinking about this... Does your wife know you spend time doodling pictures of tackle shops? Just joking... But I do love the idea of the bait dispensers, I would love to be able to get bait anytime of day instead of worrying about when a place closes... Also, I would think you would need a bigger space then 20 by 25 (or whatever). Seems like you would get like 5 customers in there and it would get crowded pretty fast.
Posted by gyozadude
My wife thinks it’s a computer lab bench layout.
Posted by stumpysez
I agree, I'd use the 24 hour frozen bait dispensers. I think that's brilliant. I don't know how cost effective it would be, but what the hey. Operating costs shouldn't be too bad, but the up front costs might be a little steep, and I don't know what kind of profit margin frozen bait has. On the other hand, you would have an absolute corner on the late-night-frozen-anchovy market. I'd probably use the machines just because I have a hard time making it to a bait shop during business hours, and I like buying frozen bait on my way home.
Heck, if you could make vending machines like that, ones that were secure and could handle a little abuse, setting them up at the feet of piers up and down the coast would be a pretty good gig. Just have to check them every now and again to restock. Again, I don't know just how hard it would be to set up a vending freezer unit. Seems like prime vandal territory, harder to control if they're at many spots rather than at your armor-plated tackle shop. -B
Posted by gyozadude
Impetus for the design. The whole design is geared toward placement on a pier, such as what the San Mateo (Werder) pier would be. The orientation, however, would require that the shop be overhanging the edge a bit. The doors would open up toward either end of the pier, and with about 10 feet overhanging the pier, I'd still have about 10 feet wide walking path around the structure. The other option is to have doors on either side and widen the deck of the pier around either side by 5 feet each and orient the doorways sideways.
The vending machines can be protected by having longer chutes and to put metal grates in front of them. Much like a road side rest stop that has remote vending machines. And instead of taking cash, the system would rely on a cell-phone. People would dial the number and get billed on their phone bill for the item. Then there's no cash and no reason to break in to steal the cash.
As far as vending machines go, they pay for themselves because the labor costs are zero. There are ice cream vending machines these days already. The key is finding a supplier of bait that can package bait to fit the vending machine. Other than that, it's just a capital cost. And if we had cameras posted out there with remote recording elsewhere on the network, thieves would have to be pretty stupid to try something where I'd have a 1024x768 image of the perp trying to steal or break something in a 360 degree circle around the shop. Gyozadude, "Yes - I roll my own potsticker skins"
Posted by Mikey
500 sq. feet is pretty small I think. My shop is 900 sq. feet, and we have a rod - wrapping station, and a little office, where we store additional things. It's barely enough space to carry what everyone wants - but we can order it if we don't have it. We do have a back shelf though, and that helps. We get 6 people + in there, and it gets kinda crowded with all the aisles and rod racks and stuff. Cameras are helpful. I'm not so sure about the automatic bait machine, it just seems like something else that could malfunction. you'd have to call the machine guy out to fix the problem, meanwhile losing business because people couldn’t just open a fridge and pull out a bag of anchovies. Live bait is hard to maintain especially when sellers impose "minimum" numbers. Hehe, it's not easy. Mike
Posted by crawford23
I’m gonna tell you that after talking with Sinker he has the best idea for a tackle shop that I have ever heard. Too bad he’s going to Florida.
Posted bySongslinger
STOCK —The inventory should reflect the local species and style of fishing, and not the stock levels suggested by a corporate office. (For a recent and glaring example, if one is looking for salmon spinner lures within the Ocean Bay District, then there should be single barbless hooks available and not just trebles.)
The items should be arranged in a sensible manner and categorized accordingly. Labels and placards are helpful.
Fishing line must be kept out of the blaze of overhead lighting.
Rods and reels ought to be available in moderate to expensive price ranges. Cheap stuff isn't a serious consideration; and super elitist professional gear can also take up unnecessary space. Real equipment for real anglers.
STAFF — The personnel should be comprised of people who fish and know the area well from shore to pier to skiff to ship. Staff members ought to be friendly and genuinely helpful, more interested in making the right matches than in making a sale. And, above all, they need to know their limitations and not let BS rule their performance: if you don't know, say so and save time, and, even better, try to find an answer from someone else. Honesty works wonders. So does listening. And enthusiasm, a true love for fishing, will create more revenue and return business than hard sell tactics or, worse, snobbery and indifference.
LOCATION — Easy access and plenty of parking. I do not wish to go on a treasure hunt when I'm looking for a new shop.
HOURS — Open early and closing late will help. The fish nor tides do not wait upon the 9-5 world. Neither should customers.
Posted by dunbarton dave
I want Slinger's store in Fremont or Newark. 5:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. would work. dm
Posted by Davey jones
I agree... But there should be enough tackle, bait. Etc. whereas the charter boat does not take every frozen squid on the shelf and all the 4-oz sinkers. Maybe the supply room could cater to the larger buyers/contracts. Also a Bragging Board/Info Board that is kept current. Maps..Maps..Maps; supply information that is real time and build your business from referals and word of mouth. Food!
Posted by eelmaster
Polite employees Which is ironic coming from me. But a bait store that I frequent in Petaluma employs this one guy who is the most unplesant guy I have ever met. He will tell me they are out of live bait when I can see the friggin fish swimming around behind him. This really makes me mad, as I drive a 1/2 hour extra on my way to Tomales to stop at this place. Other than that I just ask for a large selection of live bait and lures at reasonable prices.
Posted by prometheus
An outdoorsman’s shop in Iowa had a 1,000 gallon tank with bass, walleye, catfish, crappies, etc. in it. I’d put in such a tank with stripers and rockfish. Customers would go out of their way to come to see the fis
h. Maybe a bit bigger than the one I saw though, it was 4x4x8ft tall. Perhaps 12x4x8.
Posted by snookie
It would need a person with lots of fishing knowledge to stock the place. His fishing knowledge should include people working there who have fishing knowledge as well for the customer’s questions.
Snookie