Date: January 28, 2003
To: PFIC Message Board
From: nimrod
Subject: Old Timers
PIER RATS, Old Timers. I grew up in Huntington Beach and my G’Pa taught me how to fish. We fished all the Piers in SoCal. I am 44 now but I will never forget this memory as it is permanently etched in my mind. “Circa 1968.”
Newport Pier. 9 Years old. South side just below the tee. G’Pa always had a Halibut Rig out. Me, I was happy catching anything.
BTW, at this point at 9 years old I could probably show all you guys how to Rig a line for whatever. HeHe!
Anyhoot, I was busy catching everything I could whilst G'Pa waited for the elusive Butt. I was jigging (you guys call it a Sabiki rig) with my own homemade 4 or 5 hook set up nicely adorned hooks/feathers and a Diamond Jig. No Bait on hooks, as I was a poor Boy and had to catch my own meal. Believe that?
OK. Here is the story
While Jigging at the So. end just before the tee a big man (as I remember) cast a huge Shark set up and broke my line with his cast. I went to G'Pa and told him what happened. G'Pa was always pi..ed if I lost tackle. G'Pa confronted the man about the situation and the man got indignant with OL G’Pa. Needless to say G’Pa would not put up with that. Oh Jeez, Here we go!! G’pa told the man you will pay me for the rig you caused my grandson to loose. 5 cents for the weight and what you figure is fair for the hooks. The man said “I will not pay you for anything”.
At this point the whole pier gathered to see what the problem was. Long Story short: Everyone expected the young man to have his way with my G’Pa. As I remember, OL G’Pa told the young lad, go in to the Bait Shop and Replace the gear and there won’t be any problem.
The Crowd went silent. Well, you guessed it. The young punk came out with the goods and presented it to my G’Pa in front of the crowd in a cowering way.
Moral of the story: I’m one lucky Grandson
Posted by RaySniper
It's always great to have a story such as yours. My fondest fishing memories are always linked with my grandfather, my dad, and my closest childhood friend. I will never relinquish such memories. No matter how ingrained they are, they will always be special.
That being said, in the future, no matter how emotionally charged I might become about a certain issue, I'll always try to remember that most pieces of tackle aren’t worth a conflict that might shatter a pier. I’m not taking a shot at you “nimrod”.... your experience is obviously important to you and very valid...Your memories with your grandfather are what make the fishing experience so special...I’m just saying that you, me, your buddy, my friend, your grandpa are always going to run into situations where we don’t feel like we are being treated justly on a pier, on the shore, or what not. Our tackle is always going to be tied up with somebody else’s, yet we can’t always call that person out. If somebody is kind enough to replace our tackle when he or she is at fault, regardless of the fact that it requires “encouragement”, then let's be thankful for that considerate person...for they are rare. On the other hand, such a person is not going to be part of the norm, and we have to accept the fact that we fish on piers and shorelines along with other individuals who do not necessarily see things the same way as we do.
I want to repeat “nimrod”, this is by no means a criticism of you, I was simply “influenced” by your post. Let us just try to accommodate the different kinds of individuals, cultures, philosophies, etc. that occupy piers and shorelines. We can call people out, but we can never change who they are as individuals. We will all learn over time as we continue to frequent piers, shores, etc.
We just can'’ allow people to get the impression that calling people out is the way to solve these problems. We will always have “beefs” with somebody on every pier and shoreline on which we fish, but we don’t necessarily have to confront them in a manner that will elicit negative reactions.
I apologize for my preaching. However, I feel that far too many people on piers, shorelines, and this board are far too confrontational. I have been a “lurker” on this board far longer than i have been a “contributor”. However, I feel that I have been around long enough to have a firm grasp of this board's culture. People who call people “punks,” “fools”, etc. are not contributing to a positive vibe here. I see far too many people criticized, when they should actually be embraced for being a part of the “fraternity” of fishermen that enjoy frequenting this board.
Let’s not isolate those individuals that “offend” us for the mere fact that their actions are not ABSOLUTELY consistent with our own. Yes, not everybody is going to be perfect. Yes, all principles are not going to be identical with those on this board. However, as long as fishermen recognize one another as fishermen and try, to their best understanding, to comply with the regulations that are set before them, all should be recognized and praised.
This guy is finished with his preaching...
Posted by Ken Jones
Nicely said.
Posted by pierhead
What more could anyone add... except to say Amen! Thank you. Pierhead
Posted by avidangler
I’ll add something. Good for your granddad. I was at the Monterey Pier last summer (surprise, surprise) and this guy was giving a kid whom I am friends with he and his dad and really like both of them, a hard time. He was laying into him how he was fishing here and the young fellow needed to move down the pier. Funny thing is the kid outfishes most adults I know! Reminds me of me when I was his age
!! Anyway I caught wind of this and told the guy to shut his mouth and show my young friend some respect and if he wasn't willing to do that there were about thirty men that were on the pier that day that thought rather highly of the young man and could care less about his sorry unowut! He promptly apologized. I’m no bad sackbut I won’t put up with that kind of crap. Ever. Kids are pure, adults can be real jerks. If I ever saw anyone mistreating my nephew on the pier I would make damn sure they didn’t get away with it. I'm sorry but that’s your family man, and I would die for mine.-AA
Posted by nimrod
One Wise man once said learn to pick and choose your battles wisely. When it comes to family all rules are off. I have dearly protected this Country and Family obviously will be protected with vigor if needed by whatever means necessary. I also am no bad ass but I know when the “Fight or Flight” applies.
Posted by gjang
On the other hand, there is another factor in this case that justifies another look. Although it's best not to force an encounter for something that can be resolved by doing nothing, it seems to me that the perpetrator may have learned proper pier etiquette through this experience. At the least, he would know next time not to be so callous in his action.
Of course I would not endorse a confrontation for every violation of what should be recognized as common courtesy. In this case, it seems to me that Nimrod's G'Pa has had enough life experiences to discern when the application of a heavy hand was appropriate. It was also an opportunity for him to teach Nimrod, his grandson, to do what is right if he ever damages someone else’s property and secondly but as important, we don't have to put up with bad behavior. George, Thank you Nimrod!
Posted by pierhead
What a wonderful story ... welcome to the board. You will make a fine addition and I look forward to your future posts. Pierhead
Posted by lucy
Bully for gramps!!!! How refreshing—a nice story about good old-fashioned ASSERTIVENESS.
Posted by Red Fish
“While Jigging at the So. end just before the tee a big man (as I remember) cast a huge Shark set up and broke my line with his cast.”
The image is kind of vague to me by your description of how the man broke your line, but I am imagining that he was fishing too close to you and G'Pa and caught your line on an under-handed cast and stripped it out of the water or something.
The details are important in this action as to how it happened and who was at fault. I am assuming from G’Pa's reaction it was obvious to all parties involved that the lad was in error.
O.K., I'm going to relay a short story from about (6) years ago that could have turned out real ugly but went the other way. Lafayette Reservoir, end of the day, catfishing. I rush to my favorite lunker spot right before sundown on the end of the L-shaped west-handicapped dock only to find one guy on the entire pier fly-fishing right there. So he is casting west and my spot is east in the tules. So I ask him if it is all right to fish on the opposite side of him and he says nothing to me and continues to fish. Seconds later, he changes the direction of his presentation and purposely strips my line out of the water while I am still fishing. Muttering stupid at the same time. I ask him, “What did you call me?” “Did you call me stupid?” Then I mutter to myself out loud, “All I wanted to do is come here and relax and fish and you, f***ed that up.” Well then he says, I’m going to call the cops because you cursed in front of my son. I say, “Go ahead, and make sure you tell them that you stripped my line out of the water and called me stupid first.” Well, the guy sent his wife (she took the son with her) to get the cops and meanwhile the guy and I are there alone on the pier. After that, we start discussing both sides of the issue. By the time the wife had come back we some how resolved our differences and the guy actually hugged me (very strange). Anyway, when his wife came back he told her to forget about it. She said the police are already on their way, so he sent her to intercept the police. That is short as I could make it w/o leaving out any pertinent details. I believe there is a moral in there somewhere only I just don't know what it is, LOL! Insert the slinger peace symbol here.
Posted by nimrod
Well gjang hit the nail right on the head. This “fellow” could best be described as the Bully in the playground. Rather than the customary normal underhand cast he would take advantage of the TEE in the Pier. He would make several swings along side of the Pier to achieve the greatest arc and actually would run with his final cast. He took out several peoples line prior to mine not to mention hogging the whole section of the Pier.
G’pa made that point to him as well as asking him to go into the Tackle shop and buy the sinker and hooks. The man was angry that a Nickle wasn’t that big a deal but after returning from the shop and having time to think about it he was apologetic and I assume learned his evil ways.
On the way home I got the ol G’Pa lecture that the Nickle was not the issue and sometimes you have to stand up for yourself.
BTW, I agree with Ray’s post above for the most part however looking back on it I'm sure he did that for my benefit. Tight lines to all.
Posted by Red Fish
Two thumbs up for G’Pa. I am proud of him too for making a stand. If there were more people like him, then there would be less misguided youth today!
Posted by RaySniper
I hear you nimrod. Like I said, I wasn't taking a shot at you and your story. I'm sure that your grandpa was standing up against an inconsiderate individual and for something that he truly believed in. He taught you to stand up for yourself under these situations, which is great.
Your story just gave me some “inspiration” to communicate something that I had wanted to state for some time. Many on this board seem to respond to adversity by responding in an aggressive manner (or on the Internet, in an aggressive tone). When faced with a sticky situation, people oftentimes jump the gun and resort to a prideful display of aggressive retaliance, which, in most cases, leads to negative results not only for the parties directly involved, but for all of the surrounding individuals, i.e., children, etc. Nobody should ever allow for themselves to be walked upon, however, at times, acknowledging and accepting the innocence (and/or ignorance) of others can lead to better results than will a prideful display of aggressive retaliance. Yeah, I know, I sound like Ghandi or something...but I just feel that fishing should breed relaxation and peace. If somebody rises up, then it might be easier to diffuse the situation with some passivity rather than provoking it in some form or another. That being said, after hearing your story in greater detail, I definitely agree that your grandpa did the right thing...go gramps!
Posted by John Anderson
Great story! I’m glad to hear that someone stands up to that punk.
To: PFIC Message Board
From: nimrod
Subject: Old Timers
PIER RATS, Old Timers. I grew up in Huntington Beach and my G’Pa taught me how to fish. We fished all the Piers in SoCal. I am 44 now but I will never forget this memory as it is permanently etched in my mind. “Circa 1968.”
Newport Pier. 9 Years old. South side just below the tee. G’Pa always had a Halibut Rig out. Me, I was happy catching anything.
BTW, at this point at 9 years old I could probably show all you guys how to Rig a line for whatever. HeHe!
Anyhoot, I was busy catching everything I could whilst G'Pa waited for the elusive Butt. I was jigging (you guys call it a Sabiki rig) with my own homemade 4 or 5 hook set up nicely adorned hooks/feathers and a Diamond Jig. No Bait on hooks, as I was a poor Boy and had to catch my own meal. Believe that?
OK. Here is the story
While Jigging at the So. end just before the tee a big man (as I remember) cast a huge Shark set up and broke my line with his cast. I went to G'Pa and told him what happened. G'Pa was always pi..ed if I lost tackle. G'Pa confronted the man about the situation and the man got indignant with OL G’Pa. Needless to say G’Pa would not put up with that. Oh Jeez, Here we go!! G’pa told the man you will pay me for the rig you caused my grandson to loose. 5 cents for the weight and what you figure is fair for the hooks. The man said “I will not pay you for anything”.
At this point the whole pier gathered to see what the problem was. Long Story short: Everyone expected the young man to have his way with my G’Pa. As I remember, OL G’Pa told the young lad, go in to the Bait Shop and Replace the gear and there won’t be any problem.
The Crowd went silent. Well, you guessed it. The young punk came out with the goods and presented it to my G’Pa in front of the crowd in a cowering way.
Moral of the story: I’m one lucky Grandson
Posted by RaySniper
It's always great to have a story such as yours. My fondest fishing memories are always linked with my grandfather, my dad, and my closest childhood friend. I will never relinquish such memories. No matter how ingrained they are, they will always be special.
That being said, in the future, no matter how emotionally charged I might become about a certain issue, I'll always try to remember that most pieces of tackle aren’t worth a conflict that might shatter a pier. I’m not taking a shot at you “nimrod”.... your experience is obviously important to you and very valid...Your memories with your grandfather are what make the fishing experience so special...I’m just saying that you, me, your buddy, my friend, your grandpa are always going to run into situations where we don’t feel like we are being treated justly on a pier, on the shore, or what not. Our tackle is always going to be tied up with somebody else’s, yet we can’t always call that person out. If somebody is kind enough to replace our tackle when he or she is at fault, regardless of the fact that it requires “encouragement”, then let's be thankful for that considerate person...for they are rare. On the other hand, such a person is not going to be part of the norm, and we have to accept the fact that we fish on piers and shorelines along with other individuals who do not necessarily see things the same way as we do.
I want to repeat “nimrod”, this is by no means a criticism of you, I was simply “influenced” by your post. Let us just try to accommodate the different kinds of individuals, cultures, philosophies, etc. that occupy piers and shorelines. We can call people out, but we can never change who they are as individuals. We will all learn over time as we continue to frequent piers, shores, etc.
We just can'’ allow people to get the impression that calling people out is the way to solve these problems. We will always have “beefs” with somebody on every pier and shoreline on which we fish, but we don’t necessarily have to confront them in a manner that will elicit negative reactions.
I apologize for my preaching. However, I feel that far too many people on piers, shorelines, and this board are far too confrontational. I have been a “lurker” on this board far longer than i have been a “contributor”. However, I feel that I have been around long enough to have a firm grasp of this board's culture. People who call people “punks,” “fools”, etc. are not contributing to a positive vibe here. I see far too many people criticized, when they should actually be embraced for being a part of the “fraternity” of fishermen that enjoy frequenting this board.
Let’s not isolate those individuals that “offend” us for the mere fact that their actions are not ABSOLUTELY consistent with our own. Yes, not everybody is going to be perfect. Yes, all principles are not going to be identical with those on this board. However, as long as fishermen recognize one another as fishermen and try, to their best understanding, to comply with the regulations that are set before them, all should be recognized and praised.
This guy is finished with his preaching...
Posted by Ken Jones
Nicely said.
Posted by pierhead
What more could anyone add... except to say Amen! Thank you. Pierhead
Posted by avidangler
I’ll add something. Good for your granddad. I was at the Monterey Pier last summer (surprise, surprise) and this guy was giving a kid whom I am friends with he and his dad and really like both of them, a hard time. He was laying into him how he was fishing here and the young fellow needed to move down the pier. Funny thing is the kid outfishes most adults I know! Reminds me of me when I was his age
!! Anyway I caught wind of this and told the guy to shut his mouth and show my young friend some respect and if he wasn't willing to do that there were about thirty men that were on the pier that day that thought rather highly of the young man and could care less about his sorry unowut! He promptly apologized. I’m no bad sackbut I won’t put up with that kind of crap. Ever. Kids are pure, adults can be real jerks. If I ever saw anyone mistreating my nephew on the pier I would make damn sure they didn’t get away with it. I'm sorry but that’s your family man, and I would die for mine.-AAPosted by nimrod
One Wise man once said learn to pick and choose your battles wisely. When it comes to family all rules are off. I have dearly protected this Country and Family obviously will be protected with vigor if needed by whatever means necessary. I also am no bad ass but I know when the “Fight or Flight” applies.
Posted by gjang
On the other hand, there is another factor in this case that justifies another look. Although it's best not to force an encounter for something that can be resolved by doing nothing, it seems to me that the perpetrator may have learned proper pier etiquette through this experience. At the least, he would know next time not to be so callous in his action.
Of course I would not endorse a confrontation for every violation of what should be recognized as common courtesy. In this case, it seems to me that Nimrod's G'Pa has had enough life experiences to discern when the application of a heavy hand was appropriate. It was also an opportunity for him to teach Nimrod, his grandson, to do what is right if he ever damages someone else’s property and secondly but as important, we don't have to put up with bad behavior. George, Thank you Nimrod!
Posted by pierhead
What a wonderful story ... welcome to the board. You will make a fine addition and I look forward to your future posts. Pierhead
Posted by lucy
Bully for gramps!!!! How refreshing—a nice story about good old-fashioned ASSERTIVENESS.
Posted by Red Fish
“While Jigging at the So. end just before the tee a big man (as I remember) cast a huge Shark set up and broke my line with his cast.”
The image is kind of vague to me by your description of how the man broke your line, but I am imagining that he was fishing too close to you and G'Pa and caught your line on an under-handed cast and stripped it out of the water or something.
The details are important in this action as to how it happened and who was at fault. I am assuming from G’Pa's reaction it was obvious to all parties involved that the lad was in error.
O.K., I'm going to relay a short story from about (6) years ago that could have turned out real ugly but went the other way. Lafayette Reservoir, end of the day, catfishing. I rush to my favorite lunker spot right before sundown on the end of the L-shaped west-handicapped dock only to find one guy on the entire pier fly-fishing right there. So he is casting west and my spot is east in the tules. So I ask him if it is all right to fish on the opposite side of him and he says nothing to me and continues to fish. Seconds later, he changes the direction of his presentation and purposely strips my line out of the water while I am still fishing. Muttering stupid at the same time. I ask him, “What did you call me?” “Did you call me stupid?” Then I mutter to myself out loud, “All I wanted to do is come here and relax and fish and you, f***ed that up.” Well then he says, I’m going to call the cops because you cursed in front of my son. I say, “Go ahead, and make sure you tell them that you stripped my line out of the water and called me stupid first.” Well, the guy sent his wife (she took the son with her) to get the cops and meanwhile the guy and I are there alone on the pier. After that, we start discussing both sides of the issue. By the time the wife had come back we some how resolved our differences and the guy actually hugged me (very strange). Anyway, when his wife came back he told her to forget about it. She said the police are already on their way, so he sent her to intercept the police. That is short as I could make it w/o leaving out any pertinent details. I believe there is a moral in there somewhere only I just don't know what it is, LOL! Insert the slinger peace symbol here.
Posted by nimrod
Well gjang hit the nail right on the head. This “fellow” could best be described as the Bully in the playground. Rather than the customary normal underhand cast he would take advantage of the TEE in the Pier. He would make several swings along side of the Pier to achieve the greatest arc and actually would run with his final cast. He took out several peoples line prior to mine not to mention hogging the whole section of the Pier.
G’pa made that point to him as well as asking him to go into the Tackle shop and buy the sinker and hooks. The man was angry that a Nickle wasn’t that big a deal but after returning from the shop and having time to think about it he was apologetic and I assume learned his evil ways.
On the way home I got the ol G’Pa lecture that the Nickle was not the issue and sometimes you have to stand up for yourself.
BTW, I agree with Ray’s post above for the most part however looking back on it I'm sure he did that for my benefit. Tight lines to all.
Posted by Red Fish
Two thumbs up for G’Pa. I am proud of him too for making a stand. If there were more people like him, then there would be less misguided youth today!
Posted by RaySniper
I hear you nimrod. Like I said, I wasn't taking a shot at you and your story. I'm sure that your grandpa was standing up against an inconsiderate individual and for something that he truly believed in. He taught you to stand up for yourself under these situations, which is great.
Your story just gave me some “inspiration” to communicate something that I had wanted to state for some time. Many on this board seem to respond to adversity by responding in an aggressive manner (or on the Internet, in an aggressive tone). When faced with a sticky situation, people oftentimes jump the gun and resort to a prideful display of aggressive retaliance, which, in most cases, leads to negative results not only for the parties directly involved, but for all of the surrounding individuals, i.e., children, etc. Nobody should ever allow for themselves to be walked upon, however, at times, acknowledging and accepting the innocence (and/or ignorance) of others can lead to better results than will a prideful display of aggressive retaliance. Yeah, I know, I sound like Ghandi or something...but I just feel that fishing should breed relaxation and peace. If somebody rises up, then it might be easier to diffuse the situation with some passivity rather than provoking it in some form or another. That being said, after hearing your story in greater detail, I definitely agree that your grandpa did the right thing...go gramps!
Posted by John Anderson
Great story! I’m glad to hear that someone stands up to that punk.