Date: January 26, 2004
To: PFIC Message Board
From: Nufo
Subject: Sturgeon followers please read
When it comes to sturgeon fishing there are many ways to become successful. One is to find a consistent spot and fish it regularly and learn the ins and outs. If someone post of a fish they caught, chances are they put in time at the particular spot and learn things like where to cast, what tides to focus, etc. The point is be, a leader not a follower! Put in your time and earn yourself a fish rather than riding other peoples coat tails hoping to get lucky. Nufo
Posted by STURGEON KING
Right On!!!
Posted by thecrw
We're all followers and leaders out time and time again and not pay attention to what other fisherman have to offer in terms of advice. Which, we all gather from this board. There are so many factors and techniques to learn and apply, even contrasting techniques, which we all have to wade through. For example, there have been some who claim Eckley is only good at the Top of the tide, while others who fish there regularly say its good at all times (again, they may put more time in).Now, I'm seeing sturgeon rigs w/smaller leaders and sliders that don't "slide", which I thought was the whole idea of the slider (so the sturgeon doesn't feel the weight) Now, its weight the bait part as well to keep the bait down.There was an earlier thread about once you see it pump, you hook set immediately, where I heard it was better to see three steady pumps. So this brings me back to the title of my post: We're all followers and leaders (does this sound like sex and the city?) (Man, did I just admit to watching that stuff, instead of fishing? -LOL) So while "Many of You" who are sitting at you sturgy holes, pulling sturgy after sturgy and smiling smugly that you put in the time, maybe, just maybe, you learned something about NOT what to DO, NOT where to Go, from the people trying to ride your coat tails!
And if you do visit this board and only take and not return for fear of people riding your "coat-tails", that would make u worse than a lurker, cause you participate, yet give nothing back (not pointing a finger at you nufo, as you do give useful info all the time, thus i'm confused about this post, which i had to answer-as I do chase these spots these rumors hoping to get lucky)
Not all of us can put the time and effort of the likes of Slinger, Redfish, Salty, even Mel who each outfishes me 10 to 1. So I must profess myself of being a leader of followers. I follow the rumors, tips, advice, recommendations, etc...Then I lead/organize trips to try to catch on a bit o' luck, which I'm surprised to find who a number of good friends (which are better fishermen than me) gladly show up - so maybe i'm not so far off and thinking there might be sturgy in there. Just another view point. ~Elric aka TheCrw
Posted by mjonesjr
I think what Nufo’s saying is sometimes it’s time to stop reading and start fishing. Put in some time on the water instead of reading where they were biting last. Screaming Reels, mjonesjr
Posted by Nufo
Exactly, You ever here of the jack of all trades? He's not particularly great at any task but gets jobs done. Where as a master is someone who has mastered the skill and does it perfectly. Sturgeon fishing is a skill that requires mastering. All I am saying is you cannot master any location if you fish a different spot each time. Pick a known productive spot and put your efforts in until you have mastered it before moving on to another spot. Sorry for the negative tone in my first post. Its just frustrating to read your frustrations. Remember we all start out as wanna-bes. Nufo
Posted by Red Fish
Agree and disagree...I have seen some people with not much fishing skill (some of which you know) hook up big time when a (guide) put them on fish. Happens all the time on party boats. The skill is in locating fish and knowing when it is time to move off the spot and fish another locale. True, there are some basics like detecting a bite or hit the channel, but you cannot catch fish where they DO NOT exist.
Posted by gyozadude
Being a good leader...Nufo: In leadership class, they've trained me to leverage my colleagues and co-workers, especially those with skills and talents that enhance the performance of the whole team. At the same time, leaders are taught not to try to do everything themselves. Delegate instead, we're told. So to be a good leader, I'm letting those with true skills in finding and catching Sturgeon identify the hot spots and I'll be a good leader and follow up with some personal verification that in fact they are there. And since this is all need-to-know information, as a good leader, if you report what you know to me, I'll be discrete and tell no one else
. You have my confidence, Nufo!
Posted by gyozadude
Location, Location, Location. On a more serious note, Nufo: I took some time out to check the watershed maps for the Bay Area. Every county seems to have them, and most post them on the web under the sewage and water district pages.
For the folks up in the North, East Bay regions that have access to the Delta regions, it's straightforward to hook into Dinos. Basically, they like brackish water with some mix of fresh/saltwater water, and I read somewhere that down in CA, they come out when the water drops below 16 deg C or around 60 deg F.
Unlike what lots of folks think about Sturgeon, the USGS has done a lot of studies in the Delta and conclude that the zone of water and estuaries in the Grizzly Island to Honkers Bay areas are perfect for Sturgeon, especially the estuaries that have 6 ft deep of water on average at low tide.
That's pretty up in the Delta. The riptide salinity experiments I did at Berkeley way back in 1985 for our Chemistry lab indicated high variation in salinity just during tidal changes at Martinez pier. So it's obvious that Sturgeon will prefer such movements of water to remain within their preferred temperature and salinity.
For us folks in the South Bay with real families and jobs, such travel is impossible. I can't drive past Concord without the obligatory stop to see my aging parents. Maybe, on a 1 in a 100 chance, I might be able to hit up Eckley or some Carquinez spot for say 30 minutes, but then I'd have to spend 4 hours with the parents and talk about stuff like the grandkids, work, taxes, promotions, my coworkers, the inlaws.... you know... stuff grandparents taking seriously. And most likely, with my luck, I'd get a striper before a sturgeon.
So, really, what Redfish says about finding the Sturgeon is absolutely true. If they aren't there, you'll never catch them.
Being a South Bay/Peninsula person, I calculate that there's perhaps a 3 or 4 month opportunity to catch sturgeon here along the San Mateo shores facing the Bay. But it all depends on timing of certain things and requires perhaps 10 X more work to track down than East bay folks that can fish the delta.
Why is that? Well, look at the micro-climates in the Bay Area. East Bay'ers have the whole Sacto River watershed that provides consistent sturgeon salinity. While the South Bay folks have to deal with micro-climates and a huge networks of water drainage and sewage networks and creeks. Access from shore is limited and therefore, chances of catching any sturgeon basically require that one gets laid off and has nothing else better to do except wait for the right conditions.
So, I would posit that folks who can score a sturgeon on the Peninsula side of the Bay have much more awesome Dino-Kung-Fu than the East Bay'ers folks and the other chumps that can hang out over by Pinole and further back. That's just a fact of Geography and you can't deny it.
That said, the opportunities may not zero. We need to find constant sources of drainage, and since we've had consistent rain this season, our creeks in the South Bay are decreasing overall south bay salinity. It's a good time to hit areas like the Fremont Forebay and Dumbarton Pier (East Bay) or East Palo Alto, the Baylands, and Redwood City. The water is cold enough as well.
However, the shallow sloughs are too cold now. They've dropped well below 55 deg F, and the daily influx of tidal waters into the narrower sloughs isn't warm enough to heat the cold mud flats that have gone cold until late February. So the key is to find more open access to wide, slightly deeper sloughs with less exposure to colder surface temps.
And, as expected, the boaters seem to find some sturgeon hanging out just a bit deeper. For example, over at Redwood City Marina, about 1/2 mile out, some boaters are anchoring and tossing grass shrimp just a bit removed from the marina. Here, the topographical maps show a natural deeper water channel. This isn't the dredged channel that must be maintained by the port to provide a minimum 32 feet of draft for the big Cargill Salt Barges. I've studied the bottoms and snagged lots of debris from these places and I don't see the amount of baitfish or other bottom life that would signal the rise of movements of large predators that would frequent the Port of Redwood City. Also, new shoreline constructions, such as the Openwave/Pacific Shores Centre complex, are still too new. It's been a couple of years since their opening and the shoreline is showing more growth and more life. Baitfish are more numerous, the algae are not completely dead in winter, and large smelts are moving in. Plus the slough is wide enough. But there isn't the frequency yet of large predators that would make it lucrative waters for anglers.
East Palo Alto has another spot. Robbie knows it well. It's part of the Ravenswood shoreline area, and it can be full of wackos and violent offenders come to steal stuff and kill you. Probably not a safe place to fish unless you're an ex-con or carrying Spectra/Kevlar - and I don't mean on your reel spool. But it's open to the south bay and has structure. Sturgeon are indeed known to come in and get caught there. But folks are also known to get beat up and assaulted there.
All these systems may produce sturgeon. But all the factors need to come together. Is there enough food? Is the Salinity preferable? Is the temperature right? Are the tides favorable? After each rain, the salinity doesn't decrease locally right away. It takes some time. But the runoff is diluted quickly by the strong tides. Are baitfish or bottom dwelling worms prevalent in that area? Have the sturgeon had enough time to move in an any numbers? Chances are not zero, but they are slim.
Last week was what I'd call an Ideal Week for Sturgeon in the Peninsula/SouthBay. Occasional rain, good salinity, good water temps, strong currents. Yes, there was lots of Herring roe up north. And Sturgeon are known to migrate a 100 km for warmer waters in Oregon and B.C. studies... however, those same studies tend to point to Sturgeon staying within a couple of km of their main home habitat. So I had to believe that there are some South Bay resident dinos who hang out down here who grow okay eating bottom shrimp, crustaceans, and fish.
But it's hard work. I'm trying to find the drainage location for the Redwood Shores water treatment facility. It's a constant source for fresh water and guarantees a local supply of nutrients for crustaceans because of the released water. It's also warmer and can increase the water in the Redwood shores sloughs a tiny bit higher than the ambient, so where it drains into the Bay must have more preferential salinity, temperature and food. Couple that with the right tides and weather, and somewhere in the South Bay/Peninsula must be a few sturgeon to catch. The key though is to find where.
The other drainage points far into the Baylands in the south are too mercurial as are all the creek sources. The rains come, the creeks flow, then nothing. Timing is everything. Boaters have an advantage in these cases. They can chase the fish. Folks fishing shoreline and structure are limited in accessibility.
I'm still trying. But I've limited my time to very specific outgoing or incoming tides. Tight 1 or 2 hours. And with the lack of major South Bay or peninsula flooding so far this year, the waters are crystal clear. I'm moving down from 25 lb copolymer line and moving to 20 lb braided line and 20 lb fluorocarb leaders to attempt bites.
Then talk about commutes. I gotta hit Fishery Supply 15 miles south for bait in San Jose, and then head 30 miles north again to get to my fishing spot.
Ain't that many chances when the celestial bodies align for sturgeon. But I believe it can be done. Only, it's a lot harder for us down here than for folks in the north bay. BTW, I won't even bring up the idea of folks from So. Cal trying to get a sturgeon. They're even more location-impaired!
Posted by Nufo
Funny thing G-dude. I know of a south bay spot that produces sturgeon year round. So do a number of other regulars on this board. This area has multiple spots to fish but access is limited. A picture of an oversized fish from one of these spots has been posted on this web site. No one will give out the exact location of these spots. But here are two hints. There is no car access and the closest spot is at least 1.5 miles (about a 20-25 minute walk). The next hint is this: The best grass around can be found near this area (and no I am not talking about drugs). Nufo
P.S. If you know where I am speaking of SHHHHHHH! Keep it on the DL.
P.P.S. If you want to find the spots I mention don't ask me thinking you may get a direct answer. Just as I had to, you will have to do some leg work and put in your time to find these spots.
Posted by gyozadude
Awe.. C'mon Nufo... don't give away the goods. Here I am trying to make the South Bay'ers depressed enough to make it out to Eckley and Grizzly Island and you're giving away the goods locally.
I personally deny knowing any spots within 1.5 miles walking distance. And that's the truth!
Posted by carlos
Exactly I don’t know what you’re talking about LOL
Posted by Red Fish
Carlos, I want to see a nine-footer this year!!!!!
Posted by carlos
So do I Red Fish but I haven’t been fishing lately just been busy doing other stuff..... I need to get my 2004 license and then ill be out there trying for that 9 footer.
Posted by mel
Want to know why I fish 1 spot for so long? As long as a spot is still producing, I'll hang around. It's just a matter of time. People catch sturgeon there right next to me, and we're using the same bait and tackle. Nufo, you said it took you 2 years before you finally got one? Well, I'm ready. I got nothing but time. I have this funny feeling that if I give up on a spot, I'll miss a WFO bite and kick myself in the butt. I decided that I would spend my Saturdays there and the other days elsewhere. (BTW, I'm thinking of getting sick one day this week, so if anyone knows a good spot to get cured at, let me know). Here's another reason: About 2 months ago I helped a guy catch his first striper. It was a nice 33" fatty. He was away from his rod, I saw the bite and called him over, then I netted the fish for him. It was a lot of fun and we became good friends ever since. He's there every Saturday. About 3 weeks ago, he gets a keeper sturgy on the line. While fighting it, he got scared and wanted to hand the rod off to me. No way, I told him. Your fish, you reel it in. If you lose it, oh well, no big deal but you gotta try. Well, with the help of Sportyguy's brother who snared it, he got it in. It was a nice 50 something incher. His first. Last Saturday my friend Mel was walking around with a copy of the Independent Journal newspaper. In it was a picture of the same guy holding up a huge sturgeon. When I looked at it, I said "oh yeah, I remember when he caught that!" Mel told me he caught it last week but last week I wasn't there. It was a picture of another one he caught. After going there every weekend for I don't know how long, he caught 2 in 2 weeks. So, of course I'll put some time in there. I think it's definitely a good investment.
Posted by pEsCaDoR619
I kinda see both sides on this. I know the pain of having to do it yourself till it works. I went through two months of SKUNK. And I’m talking almost every day. I went through this skunk period just to finally catch a saltwater fish on a lure but when that 13" sculpin took my 4" Fishtrap I was the proudest angler in the world. and i let out a BIG sigh of relief. Now, I have people asking me what they need to do to get better at using lures to catch fish in the bay. I’m not saying that I’m the best, because I’m definitely not. I try to help and I tell what I know. But I’m not going to cast the lure out for them and watch them to make sure they’re doing things right. I won’t spoon feed anyone. I can put people on fish, but its up to them to do the right thing to actually catch the fish (especially since I’m not getting paid for it hehehe). I’ll tell them what I think they should do. I’ll even demonstrate with my own rod and reel but I wont baby sit.
When that person finally catches their first fish on a lure, immediately I ask "so what were you doing when it bit?" As soon as they identify what it was, the strikes start coming in. and it is the greatest feeling of accomplishment because they know they did it themselves. and I didn’t catch the fish for them.
I recently had the opportunity to become the apprentice again (fly fishing in saltwater) without even looking at me, my strike ratio skyrocketed through his MINIMAL tutelage. I caught 15 fish that day.
So my point is, its good to divulge info, just not all of it. I don’t think anyone would want to be spoon fed. and when (not if) you guys get your first sturgeon, it just might be cool to know that you did it with no one's help. You just might find a new way to catch them in the process. or in this case, a new area that no one knew about where they’re all over the place.
Posted by TheCrw
Sturgeon Leaders, please read: It's great that you guys have all the time in the world to investigate your spots and NOT share with others on this board, that's the spirit!
So is this a constructive thread? Is putting your time IN, the end all be all? I see Mel, putting day in and day out at McNears and Paradise, has anyone e-mailed him on a tip? Is he supposed to put in over 20 days of skunk fishing and then magically catch sturgeon?
Sounds like "Sturgeon Smugness" to me. Only person that is putting out helpful info is Sturgeon King and I follow his posts cause I think he posts to help.
So if you're one of the LEADERS who bag sturgeon regularly and sit back and watch others bang their heads in frustration, well that's cool. You paid your dues (and I’m sure no one helped you out or put you onto a spot).
But, if you bag sturgeon consistently and all you offer is, put time on the water - I'd rather have you shut it, cause it ain't doing me any good. I put as much time as I can, chasing these Dino's around. ~Elric, aka TheCrw
Posted by Nufo
Don't get frustrated cause your one of the folks I am talking about. I dedicated two years to sturgeon fishing before I got my first, but I learned and developed along the way.
As far as having time to fish I don't have much but I am working on learning a new spot. The spot is no secret (Martinez Pier) but I know its productive so my last three fishing trips over the past month have been there.
My thread is constructive I guess you just can't figure it out.
As for Mel, he's doing it right and will eventually be a good sturgeon angler. He is fishing the same spots time and time again and is even hooking up. Soon you'll be following him too. as for McNears and paradise. I don't fish them so I can not help Mel or anyone else for that matter.
All sturgeon king is doing is informing you of Eckly's productiveness. Stugeon king has put in his time at Eckly. Again I guess you fail to see this and think your going to show up there randomly once or twice and get lucky.
As far as sitting back and watching others bang their head. Sorry you got the wrong guy there. Do a search and learn something. It gets old repeating the same thing over and over for those who fail to "get it"
Next time you tell someone to "shut it" make sure your face to face and not hiding behind a computer tough guy. No advice will do you any good if you can't figure out what the person is saying. What do you want us to do go and catch the fish for you? Nufo
Posted by Nufo
By the way. Repeated ignorance is what drives successful anglers away from this board. Why would anyone want to continue to share when those they share with don't get it and in turn shove it back in their face. Guess that’s why most of the old-time regulars are gone to be lurkers rather than active posters.
Dawn the new breed of Internet anglers. Rather than fishing they spend most of their time on the internet hoping someone will give them a secret spot where they can not only learn to fish but also catch the elusive sturgeon, a fish that many anglers never successfully catch in a life time of fishing.
Posted by gyozadude
Whoa there, Nufo!!! No need to dis the new breed of Internet anglers. The one thing that the Internet has done is provide a plethora of information that once was inaccessible. Drainage basin maps for local creeks, rivers and sewage runoff for example.
For those of us really limited in time, it helps us focus on where we might try to find those elusive sturgeon. You see, while folks living in the North and East Bay have the luxury of lots of fishing reports telling them which spots are producing from pier or shore, and some folks, like Mel, can see people pull out sturgeon next to him, we folks in the South Bay don't see or hear much of anything about sturgeon from shore.
So the Internet is what we need to turn to for information. I wasn't lying in my previous post. Yes, I may know some sturgeon spots in the South Bay. But I'm assured that I know them because others know them, and fish them hard. They catch a few, and it may be consistent, but those guys look unemployed and every time I've shone up, they're just packing it in after a whole day there. Not much chance for me to get to untouched waters.
But there are two tactics. Higher casting technology that gets my bait out there to channels that may be beyond where most anglers have cast. The other option is to find new places that no one fishes for sturgeon. Which is what I've been trying to do recently.
So I'm fishing blind. But not really. The Internet can teach us a lot. We find out little nuggets of information on what makes for good sturgeon water. Geographical Information Systems (GIS) is so prevalent now, and we even have satellite pics of shorelines that tell us what might and might not be accessible. Another example is information that says that water need not be deep. It just needs to consistently be covered by water around 6 feet deep at low tide and provide forage. Smaller sturgeon feed on small mollusks, crustaceans, small bottom fish. Big sturgeon move up to feed on larger fish. But they are opportunistic feeders, eating and moving on, using the current to move in and out. that said, sturgeon also favor a certain salinity and temperature of water.
The Internet can help someone who does careful research to monitor conditions. It gives maps of estuary salinity levels over a long history, and this can help identify spots of greater potential.
So while it's one thing to fish a pier where you've personally seen people pull sturgeon out, it's another to be the "first" to find sturgeon in untested waters. It requires tremendous confidence in knowing the conditions and "thinking" like a sturgeon.
Lastly, there are two remaining factors - bait and tackle. Well, this is where the Internet has been great information. It's quite obvious what works for different people. My conclusions from everyone's experience: Sturgeons aren't picky about the type of bait, they're picky about its freshness. And I'll stick with my feeling that lighter tackle will help detect the hits much better than heavy.
The Internet does provide. And while I wouldn't be so critical against Sturgeon Followers, I will agree that I get great satisfaction knowing I'm the hunter, not the prey. And soon, when I do find those dinos, then the Student will have become the Master!
Posted by Red Fish
Agree and disagree. Nufo is right about "time on the water." I never fished for sturgeon the first 30 years of my fishing career. Really, I never started fishing for halibut until around '88. Why not? Patience really and I had no real interest. I was happy enough just catching perch and smelt as a kid. Back then there were no halibut fisherman near the beginning of Berkeley Pier. The few "butt heads" fished at the end, put their fish on tag lines over the side and did not publicize their catches. As Nufo knows (and I as well) their are many outstanding anglers out there that catch fish for food and are not interesting in posting about it on the internet (many or these irritable, rough-hewn fellows do not even own a computer).
O.K.-what I am getting at is that a lot of time and effort is put into locating sturgeon (from the bank). Many sturgeon anglers have put in a great deal of hours figuring out when and where and because of the time invested, they are very conservative with divulging this information. Now, if you put in some time then people are willing to help you out a little bit.
For instance: out of all the years at Berkeley Pier fishing for halibut, the "pier experts" only started to notice me after my stringer started getting full. They offered no help at first, but after they saw I could catch some fish on my own, the majority of them wanted to show me their secrets. Heck, and I did develop a few secrets of my own that they now ask about.
Posted by TheCrw
This is a message board. And I got your message... better if you didn't say anything at all. Maybe you'll be one of those regular posters that got so fed up that you'll stop posting. Sounds like you're almost there anyway by your own admittance.
I put in my time, if not on the water, then on the computer, on the cell and reading. We can't all have the life of Riley and fish 5hr + weekly. Fortunately, I've got some friends who'll help me out w/ their limited knowledge and I'll drink it all in to my best ability. Most of them travel all over the place, (cept Mel) and I'm still trying to decipher the ryhme and reason. All I know is that they're experienced, good fun and kind enough to show a newbie what they know. (in fact, I'm switching over to this new shorter leader idea cause that's what they're using - is that riding someone's coat tail?)
At the end of the day if I catch a sturgeon, I'm the one that caught it, unless someone set the hook for me (which in my book doesn't count).
I'll be lucky if I get out once a month, so excuuuuuusssseee me, if I use the computer to find where the fish are or my best chance on finding them or learn a few tricks. Let's face it, no one KNOWS where they are only their best guess, which some feel free to share and some others not.
I think I know which camp you come from, so I probably won't be fishing w/ you. and by the way, you put this one out there... I just answered it. When I DO catch one, it'll be a long list of PROPS I’ll be giving and one will even be to you, for not listening to you and following my own gut and doing it MY way, with the help of my FRIENDS of course, cause without them, I'd be lost (well at least farther from my goal) ~Elric aka TheCrw
Posted by gyozadude
The question is, can you trust your Friends... to give you good intell on the dino ops? Certainly we think we're all on the same team, but just like the CIA can give bum data on WMD, do we take action on their account without doing some verification ourselves?
Self-reliance on what this to thine own self be true is a tremendous power to have. Focused fishing on limited time learning on a steep curve is a good challenge fit for the true master anglers. Wouldn't it be more virtuous to achieve that on your own, rather than rationalize the plagiarism of someone else’s research to get a few hook ups?
I think Nufo is just pointing out that there are a lot of new folks on the board who want the easy hook up with a dino and are constantly asking obviously brain dead questions on who, what, when, where, and how. These folks are more interested in the hook ups themselves and the subsequent fight, than the pursuit itself to find these elusive creatures.
It's obvious that these folks aren't confident in their gear or their fish fighting skills to the point where they don't need to ask such trivial questions as to what line to use, and what size hooks, etc. But in the self-pursuit to find sturgeon and proving oneself worthy, the confidence in gear and fighting skills will come.
Posted by Nufo
Last try. Ok this is the last try to and then I am done beating you over the head with info you just don't understand. Fishing with a bunch of friends is a fun time. However you would be better off fishing alone where you can be focused and not distracted b.s.ing about how short your leader should be or what kind of slider or sinker you need. The name of the game is concentration and focus. But again you'd prefer to wait for that once in a lifetime suicidal sturgeon to run by and hook himself. Ok I am done wasting my breath. Nufo
Posted by Songslinger
Nufo: You Are The Man!
Posted by jason chin
More sturgeon fun! Hey guys...Checking in. Here's some more stuff that might help.
1) Keep it simple. I use a slider/bead/swivel and attach a 14" leader of 50lb. mono w/two stationary hooks. Simple. No egg weights, no colored bead art project, no extra crap. Nothing. Keep it simple.
2) Good bait you change often. Get your bait and spend the money for the good stuff. If you don't have the money don't fish and expect to be successful. CHANGE OFTEN. Check your line don't get lazy. If there are crabs, around every 5 minutes I change it. 3 or 4 dz. shrimp or 1 lb. just for myself is not unheard of when crabs or junk fish are thick.
3) Put your time in. Yup, I'm sure you heard it before. You know how much I've sacrificed to do what I do. Lost quite a few girlfriends, quite a few dollars, but that's what I do, and what I choose to do. You won't catch me putting them back at the bar (like most of my other buddies) till 2AM, most likely I'll be leaving w/rod and reel at 2AM. Sacrifice.. this isn't an easy thing. And yes I did this employed, but fishing before and after work with no sleep was a normal thing. Fishing is WORK if you want to be successful. If you don't have time sturgeon fishing is not recommended. Trout fishing can be exciting
4) The big hint. You guys want a sturgeon? Go to Dumbarton Pier. It's loaded w/sturgeon right now. I'm catching fish this past week out of that same side of the channel that runs right by the pier. THE SAME TRAVELING LANE and have been for the past 4 weeks now and know that region well enough to know they're coming by the pier. If you're not seeing any caught you guys are not fishing it correctly. Don't want to use Crw and crew (U know I love all you guys, constructive criticism) as an example but check it. "Fished Dumbarton too many people in the corner of lower platform so had to fish 20 feet back" Not OK there's two spots to catch sturgeon there and you need to get up EARLY and go get em if you want a fish. Even if the tide isn't good until noon you need to claim the spots so you're in position for the right time. Can't emphasize how crucial this really is. You guys only fished 3 hours, not long enough in my book. Right after you left someone could've grabbed one. That outgo has been very productive. I've posted about the "EXACT" spot you should be casting. G_Dude even drew a detailed map that's in the archives for both spots the top (which I actually prefer) and the bottom corner. Those are the two spots that give up sturgeon and if you see a sturgeon caught anywhere but those 2 spots. Blind luck, trust me but I've seen it happen. BTW fillet of herring/grass shrimp combo has been doing it for me. Don't waste a rod using anchovies if you're "targeting" sturgeon. There are fish at this pier year round and am surprised you guys are so turned off by it. I believe one of the most consistent producers in all the bay area. I learned the whole game at this pier, I suggest some of you struggling if you really want to learn do the same.
If you don't have the time or the effort sturgeon fishing isn't for you. Honestly. Hours upon hours like I said sacrifice. If you really want it bad, you make time. And for those of you that think it's silly or extreme I give up all this stuff just for fishing. Don't expect to be successful.
I say again I'm not on anyone's side or picking on anyone. I love you all. Put em in and get one. Hope this helps. Can't fish today so I guess I gotta talk about it. See what I mean? Whaler_J Jason "bayrunner"
Posted by patrick333
Good info, Jason. Haven't seen you post for quite a long time.
Posted by mel
Thanks Jason! I pretty much have been doing what you suggested except for the location, but I believe my location I always go to is all right. I've seen fish caught there. Also, I knew that it was going to be a challenge when I took the job. Heck, I ain't complaining. I've learned an awful lot. And Crw, there are a LOT of people e-mailing me and giving me tips on locations and invites and stuff. I have to mention that. I'm not doing it alone. I sense a heck of a lot of frustration in you. Hope you get over it. To Nufo, Jason Chin, Sturgeon King and you seasoned sturgy anglers, (sorry if I left anyone out), sometimes I really hate you guys, but at the same time, I want to be just like you guys. Just being honest. Well, gotta go make some bait money.
Posted by Nufo
Mel. I suggest you search the archives for Neptune1234 + McNears. He put his time in and nailed a few nice fish a few years back. Nufo
Posted by mel
Thanks Nufo.
Posted by Red Fish
Heck, I didn't fish hard when I went there. I brought the cold ones to throw back. I had been up half the night fishing in Richmond, Ft. Baker, and Berkeley Pier. There was enough room to fish on the lower deck and I questioned, "Why aren't we fishing on the lower deck." I knew the channel was reached by casting toward Menlo Park. But, heck, I wanted to sit down and relax and see someone else do it. BTW, the guys on the lower deck got zilch! Remember I was the one mentioned that had a mini-pizza sized bat ray on his line for mama cow shark.
I heard some reg. about minimum leader length 18". No being an authority on the law, somebody got a take on this one. Gyoza, Ed, Slinger, Jason, anyone???
I think I lost one PHD girlfriend to fishing but heck, but I believe the real reason was that she was not intellectually stimulated enough by me, LOL More fish, bigger fish!!!
You know you a playa anyway Jason
Posted by gyozadude
Sorry, can't find any leader length restrictions. I looked in the ocean regs and it doesn't look like there's any minimum leader length restrictions. I've seen it in other regulations for either fresh water or other state/provincial regs like WA, OR, or BC. It's to prevent snagging. But for us in CA, the only size is minimum 18" opening diameter for ocean fish landing nets or something like that.
Posted by jason chin
Honestly Red. I didn't even know you guys were drinking. I was referring to my buddies that don't fish at the bars/clubs all night. High School/work buddies my age and such. So don't take that comment the wrong way. Nothing wrong with having a cold one.
On the leader note. My leaders actually run a little longer than 14 looking at this ruler I have right here but no longer than 18. I honestly don't measure it out, just kind of pull line off the spool. I've never been hassled and I've fished under Barry's eagle eye tons of times. You know how that goes.
"The guys on the lower deck got zilch!" I promise they're there. Don't count on those guys. Your line probably looked better than theirs if it was down there. Just because they didn't produce doesn't mean that your line wouldn't of. You know what I'm saying, you know how to get em.
Posted by Red Fish
Tip #34 mentions minimum leader length=18" These are partyboat captains to include contributions by Capt. Bags. I have heard other guys mention this (maybe a Carquinez/Delta rule). I was just kidding. I don't take my fishing as serious as you. If I catch, I catch if I don't, oh well, I'll have an excuse, LOL But I will fish off the front if I go back. I want to get muddy and fish FFB anyway!
http://www.californiadelta.org/deltasturgeontips.htm
To: PFIC Message Board
From: Nufo
Subject: Sturgeon followers please read
When it comes to sturgeon fishing there are many ways to become successful. One is to find a consistent spot and fish it regularly and learn the ins and outs. If someone post of a fish they caught, chances are they put in time at the particular spot and learn things like where to cast, what tides to focus, etc. The point is be, a leader not a follower! Put in your time and earn yourself a fish rather than riding other peoples coat tails hoping to get lucky. Nufo
Posted by STURGEON KING
Right On!!!
Posted by thecrw
We're all followers and leaders out time and time again and not pay attention to what other fisherman have to offer in terms of advice. Which, we all gather from this board. There are so many factors and techniques to learn and apply, even contrasting techniques, which we all have to wade through. For example, there have been some who claim Eckley is only good at the Top of the tide, while others who fish there regularly say its good at all times (again, they may put more time in).Now, I'm seeing sturgeon rigs w/smaller leaders and sliders that don't "slide", which I thought was the whole idea of the slider (so the sturgeon doesn't feel the weight) Now, its weight the bait part as well to keep the bait down.There was an earlier thread about once you see it pump, you hook set immediately, where I heard it was better to see three steady pumps. So this brings me back to the title of my post: We're all followers and leaders (does this sound like sex and the city?) (Man, did I just admit to watching that stuff, instead of fishing? -LOL) So while "Many of You" who are sitting at you sturgy holes, pulling sturgy after sturgy and smiling smugly that you put in the time, maybe, just maybe, you learned something about NOT what to DO, NOT where to Go, from the people trying to ride your coat tails!
And if you do visit this board and only take and not return for fear of people riding your "coat-tails", that would make u worse than a lurker, cause you participate, yet give nothing back (not pointing a finger at you nufo, as you do give useful info all the time, thus i'm confused about this post, which i had to answer-as I do chase these spots these rumors hoping to get lucky)
Not all of us can put the time and effort of the likes of Slinger, Redfish, Salty, even Mel who each outfishes me 10 to 1. So I must profess myself of being a leader of followers. I follow the rumors, tips, advice, recommendations, etc...Then I lead/organize trips to try to catch on a bit o' luck, which I'm surprised to find who a number of good friends (which are better fishermen than me) gladly show up - so maybe i'm not so far off and thinking there might be sturgy in there. Just another view point. ~Elric aka TheCrw
Posted by mjonesjr
I think what Nufo’s saying is sometimes it’s time to stop reading and start fishing. Put in some time on the water instead of reading where they were biting last. Screaming Reels, mjonesjr
Posted by Nufo
Exactly, You ever here of the jack of all trades? He's not particularly great at any task but gets jobs done. Where as a master is someone who has mastered the skill and does it perfectly. Sturgeon fishing is a skill that requires mastering. All I am saying is you cannot master any location if you fish a different spot each time. Pick a known productive spot and put your efforts in until you have mastered it before moving on to another spot. Sorry for the negative tone in my first post. Its just frustrating to read your frustrations. Remember we all start out as wanna-bes. Nufo
Posted by Red Fish
Agree and disagree...I have seen some people with not much fishing skill (some of which you know) hook up big time when a (guide) put them on fish. Happens all the time on party boats. The skill is in locating fish and knowing when it is time to move off the spot and fish another locale. True, there are some basics like detecting a bite or hit the channel, but you cannot catch fish where they DO NOT exist.
Posted by gyozadude
Being a good leader...Nufo: In leadership class, they've trained me to leverage my colleagues and co-workers, especially those with skills and talents that enhance the performance of the whole team. At the same time, leaders are taught not to try to do everything themselves. Delegate instead, we're told. So to be a good leader, I'm letting those with true skills in finding and catching Sturgeon identify the hot spots and I'll be a good leader and follow up with some personal verification that in fact they are there. And since this is all need-to-know information, as a good leader, if you report what you know to me, I'll be discrete and tell no one else
. You have my confidence, Nufo!Posted by gyozadude
Location, Location, Location. On a more serious note, Nufo: I took some time out to check the watershed maps for the Bay Area. Every county seems to have them, and most post them on the web under the sewage and water district pages.
For the folks up in the North, East Bay regions that have access to the Delta regions, it's straightforward to hook into Dinos. Basically, they like brackish water with some mix of fresh/saltwater water, and I read somewhere that down in CA, they come out when the water drops below 16 deg C or around 60 deg F.
Unlike what lots of folks think about Sturgeon, the USGS has done a lot of studies in the Delta and conclude that the zone of water and estuaries in the Grizzly Island to Honkers Bay areas are perfect for Sturgeon, especially the estuaries that have 6 ft deep of water on average at low tide.
That's pretty up in the Delta. The riptide salinity experiments I did at Berkeley way back in 1985 for our Chemistry lab indicated high variation in salinity just during tidal changes at Martinez pier. So it's obvious that Sturgeon will prefer such movements of water to remain within their preferred temperature and salinity.
For us folks in the South Bay with real families and jobs, such travel is impossible. I can't drive past Concord without the obligatory stop to see my aging parents. Maybe, on a 1 in a 100 chance, I might be able to hit up Eckley or some Carquinez spot for say 30 minutes, but then I'd have to spend 4 hours with the parents and talk about stuff like the grandkids, work, taxes, promotions, my coworkers, the inlaws.... you know... stuff grandparents taking seriously. And most likely, with my luck, I'd get a striper before a sturgeon.
So, really, what Redfish says about finding the Sturgeon is absolutely true. If they aren't there, you'll never catch them.
Being a South Bay/Peninsula person, I calculate that there's perhaps a 3 or 4 month opportunity to catch sturgeon here along the San Mateo shores facing the Bay. But it all depends on timing of certain things and requires perhaps 10 X more work to track down than East bay folks that can fish the delta.
Why is that? Well, look at the micro-climates in the Bay Area. East Bay'ers have the whole Sacto River watershed that provides consistent sturgeon salinity. While the South Bay folks have to deal with micro-climates and a huge networks of water drainage and sewage networks and creeks. Access from shore is limited and therefore, chances of catching any sturgeon basically require that one gets laid off and has nothing else better to do except wait for the right conditions.
So, I would posit that folks who can score a sturgeon on the Peninsula side of the Bay have much more awesome Dino-Kung-Fu than the East Bay'ers folks and the other chumps that can hang out over by Pinole and further back. That's just a fact of Geography and you can't deny it.
That said, the opportunities may not zero. We need to find constant sources of drainage, and since we've had consistent rain this season, our creeks in the South Bay are decreasing overall south bay salinity. It's a good time to hit areas like the Fremont Forebay and Dumbarton Pier (East Bay) or East Palo Alto, the Baylands, and Redwood City. The water is cold enough as well.
However, the shallow sloughs are too cold now. They've dropped well below 55 deg F, and the daily influx of tidal waters into the narrower sloughs isn't warm enough to heat the cold mud flats that have gone cold until late February. So the key is to find more open access to wide, slightly deeper sloughs with less exposure to colder surface temps.
And, as expected, the boaters seem to find some sturgeon hanging out just a bit deeper. For example, over at Redwood City Marina, about 1/2 mile out, some boaters are anchoring and tossing grass shrimp just a bit removed from the marina. Here, the topographical maps show a natural deeper water channel. This isn't the dredged channel that must be maintained by the port to provide a minimum 32 feet of draft for the big Cargill Salt Barges. I've studied the bottoms and snagged lots of debris from these places and I don't see the amount of baitfish or other bottom life that would signal the rise of movements of large predators that would frequent the Port of Redwood City. Also, new shoreline constructions, such as the Openwave/Pacific Shores Centre complex, are still too new. It's been a couple of years since their opening and the shoreline is showing more growth and more life. Baitfish are more numerous, the algae are not completely dead in winter, and large smelts are moving in. Plus the slough is wide enough. But there isn't the frequency yet of large predators that would make it lucrative waters for anglers.
East Palo Alto has another spot. Robbie knows it well. It's part of the Ravenswood shoreline area, and it can be full of wackos and violent offenders come to steal stuff and kill you. Probably not a safe place to fish unless you're an ex-con or carrying Spectra/Kevlar - and I don't mean on your reel spool. But it's open to the south bay and has structure. Sturgeon are indeed known to come in and get caught there. But folks are also known to get beat up and assaulted there.
All these systems may produce sturgeon. But all the factors need to come together. Is there enough food? Is the Salinity preferable? Is the temperature right? Are the tides favorable? After each rain, the salinity doesn't decrease locally right away. It takes some time. But the runoff is diluted quickly by the strong tides. Are baitfish or bottom dwelling worms prevalent in that area? Have the sturgeon had enough time to move in an any numbers? Chances are not zero, but they are slim.
Last week was what I'd call an Ideal Week for Sturgeon in the Peninsula/SouthBay. Occasional rain, good salinity, good water temps, strong currents. Yes, there was lots of Herring roe up north. And Sturgeon are known to migrate a 100 km for warmer waters in Oregon and B.C. studies... however, those same studies tend to point to Sturgeon staying within a couple of km of their main home habitat. So I had to believe that there are some South Bay resident dinos who hang out down here who grow okay eating bottom shrimp, crustaceans, and fish.
But it's hard work. I'm trying to find the drainage location for the Redwood Shores water treatment facility. It's a constant source for fresh water and guarantees a local supply of nutrients for crustaceans because of the released water. It's also warmer and can increase the water in the Redwood shores sloughs a tiny bit higher than the ambient, so where it drains into the Bay must have more preferential salinity, temperature and food. Couple that with the right tides and weather, and somewhere in the South Bay/Peninsula must be a few sturgeon to catch. The key though is to find where.
The other drainage points far into the Baylands in the south are too mercurial as are all the creek sources. The rains come, the creeks flow, then nothing. Timing is everything. Boaters have an advantage in these cases. They can chase the fish. Folks fishing shoreline and structure are limited in accessibility.
I'm still trying. But I've limited my time to very specific outgoing or incoming tides. Tight 1 or 2 hours. And with the lack of major South Bay or peninsula flooding so far this year, the waters are crystal clear. I'm moving down from 25 lb copolymer line and moving to 20 lb braided line and 20 lb fluorocarb leaders to attempt bites.
Then talk about commutes. I gotta hit Fishery Supply 15 miles south for bait in San Jose, and then head 30 miles north again to get to my fishing spot.
Ain't that many chances when the celestial bodies align for sturgeon. But I believe it can be done. Only, it's a lot harder for us down here than for folks in the north bay. BTW, I won't even bring up the idea of folks from So. Cal trying to get a sturgeon. They're even more location-impaired!
Posted by Nufo
Funny thing G-dude. I know of a south bay spot that produces sturgeon year round. So do a number of other regulars on this board. This area has multiple spots to fish but access is limited. A picture of an oversized fish from one of these spots has been posted on this web site. No one will give out the exact location of these spots. But here are two hints. There is no car access and the closest spot is at least 1.5 miles (about a 20-25 minute walk). The next hint is this: The best grass around can be found near this area (and no I am not talking about drugs). Nufo
P.S. If you know where I am speaking of SHHHHHHH! Keep it on the DL.
P.P.S. If you want to find the spots I mention don't ask me thinking you may get a direct answer. Just as I had to, you will have to do some leg work and put in your time to find these spots.
Posted by gyozadude
Awe.. C'mon Nufo... don't give away the goods. Here I am trying to make the South Bay'ers depressed enough to make it out to Eckley and Grizzly Island and you're giving away the goods locally.
I personally deny knowing any spots within 1.5 miles walking distance. And that's the truth!
Posted by carlos
Exactly I don’t know what you’re talking about LOL
Posted by Red Fish
Carlos, I want to see a nine-footer this year!!!!!
Posted by carlos
So do I Red Fish but I haven’t been fishing lately just been busy doing other stuff..... I need to get my 2004 license and then ill be out there trying for that 9 footer.
Posted by mel
Want to know why I fish 1 spot for so long? As long as a spot is still producing, I'll hang around. It's just a matter of time. People catch sturgeon there right next to me, and we're using the same bait and tackle. Nufo, you said it took you 2 years before you finally got one? Well, I'm ready. I got nothing but time. I have this funny feeling that if I give up on a spot, I'll miss a WFO bite and kick myself in the butt. I decided that I would spend my Saturdays there and the other days elsewhere. (BTW, I'm thinking of getting sick one day this week, so if anyone knows a good spot to get cured at, let me know). Here's another reason: About 2 months ago I helped a guy catch his first striper. It was a nice 33" fatty. He was away from his rod, I saw the bite and called him over, then I netted the fish for him. It was a lot of fun and we became good friends ever since. He's there every Saturday. About 3 weeks ago, he gets a keeper sturgy on the line. While fighting it, he got scared and wanted to hand the rod off to me. No way, I told him. Your fish, you reel it in. If you lose it, oh well, no big deal but you gotta try. Well, with the help of Sportyguy's brother who snared it, he got it in. It was a nice 50 something incher. His first. Last Saturday my friend Mel was walking around with a copy of the Independent Journal newspaper. In it was a picture of the same guy holding up a huge sturgeon. When I looked at it, I said "oh yeah, I remember when he caught that!" Mel told me he caught it last week but last week I wasn't there. It was a picture of another one he caught. After going there every weekend for I don't know how long, he caught 2 in 2 weeks. So, of course I'll put some time in there. I think it's definitely a good investment.
Posted by pEsCaDoR619
I kinda see both sides on this. I know the pain of having to do it yourself till it works. I went through two months of SKUNK. And I’m talking almost every day. I went through this skunk period just to finally catch a saltwater fish on a lure but when that 13" sculpin took my 4" Fishtrap I was the proudest angler in the world. and i let out a BIG sigh of relief. Now, I have people asking me what they need to do to get better at using lures to catch fish in the bay. I’m not saying that I’m the best, because I’m definitely not. I try to help and I tell what I know. But I’m not going to cast the lure out for them and watch them to make sure they’re doing things right. I won’t spoon feed anyone. I can put people on fish, but its up to them to do the right thing to actually catch the fish (especially since I’m not getting paid for it hehehe). I’ll tell them what I think they should do. I’ll even demonstrate with my own rod and reel but I wont baby sit.
When that person finally catches their first fish on a lure, immediately I ask "so what were you doing when it bit?" As soon as they identify what it was, the strikes start coming in. and it is the greatest feeling of accomplishment because they know they did it themselves. and I didn’t catch the fish for them.
I recently had the opportunity to become the apprentice again (fly fishing in saltwater) without even looking at me, my strike ratio skyrocketed through his MINIMAL tutelage. I caught 15 fish that day.
So my point is, its good to divulge info, just not all of it. I don’t think anyone would want to be spoon fed. and when (not if) you guys get your first sturgeon, it just might be cool to know that you did it with no one's help. You just might find a new way to catch them in the process. or in this case, a new area that no one knew about where they’re all over the place.
Posted by TheCrw
Sturgeon Leaders, please read: It's great that you guys have all the time in the world to investigate your spots and NOT share with others on this board, that's the spirit!
So is this a constructive thread? Is putting your time IN, the end all be all? I see Mel, putting day in and day out at McNears and Paradise, has anyone e-mailed him on a tip? Is he supposed to put in over 20 days of skunk fishing and then magically catch sturgeon?
Sounds like "Sturgeon Smugness" to me. Only person that is putting out helpful info is Sturgeon King and I follow his posts cause I think he posts to help.
So if you're one of the LEADERS who bag sturgeon regularly and sit back and watch others bang their heads in frustration, well that's cool. You paid your dues (and I’m sure no one helped you out or put you onto a spot).
But, if you bag sturgeon consistently and all you offer is, put time on the water - I'd rather have you shut it, cause it ain't doing me any good. I put as much time as I can, chasing these Dino's around. ~Elric, aka TheCrw
Posted by Nufo
Don't get frustrated cause your one of the folks I am talking about. I dedicated two years to sturgeon fishing before I got my first, but I learned and developed along the way.
As far as having time to fish I don't have much but I am working on learning a new spot. The spot is no secret (Martinez Pier) but I know its productive so my last three fishing trips over the past month have been there.
My thread is constructive I guess you just can't figure it out.
As for Mel, he's doing it right and will eventually be a good sturgeon angler. He is fishing the same spots time and time again and is even hooking up. Soon you'll be following him too. as for McNears and paradise. I don't fish them so I can not help Mel or anyone else for that matter.
All sturgeon king is doing is informing you of Eckly's productiveness. Stugeon king has put in his time at Eckly. Again I guess you fail to see this and think your going to show up there randomly once or twice and get lucky.
As far as sitting back and watching others bang their head. Sorry you got the wrong guy there. Do a search and learn something. It gets old repeating the same thing over and over for those who fail to "get it"
Next time you tell someone to "shut it" make sure your face to face and not hiding behind a computer tough guy. No advice will do you any good if you can't figure out what the person is saying. What do you want us to do go and catch the fish for you? Nufo
Posted by Nufo
By the way. Repeated ignorance is what drives successful anglers away from this board. Why would anyone want to continue to share when those they share with don't get it and in turn shove it back in their face. Guess that’s why most of the old-time regulars are gone to be lurkers rather than active posters.
Dawn the new breed of Internet anglers. Rather than fishing they spend most of their time on the internet hoping someone will give them a secret spot where they can not only learn to fish but also catch the elusive sturgeon, a fish that many anglers never successfully catch in a life time of fishing.
Posted by gyozadude
Whoa there, Nufo!!! No need to dis the new breed of Internet anglers. The one thing that the Internet has done is provide a plethora of information that once was inaccessible. Drainage basin maps for local creeks, rivers and sewage runoff for example.
For those of us really limited in time, it helps us focus on where we might try to find those elusive sturgeon. You see, while folks living in the North and East Bay have the luxury of lots of fishing reports telling them which spots are producing from pier or shore, and some folks, like Mel, can see people pull out sturgeon next to him, we folks in the South Bay don't see or hear much of anything about sturgeon from shore.
So the Internet is what we need to turn to for information. I wasn't lying in my previous post. Yes, I may know some sturgeon spots in the South Bay. But I'm assured that I know them because others know them, and fish them hard. They catch a few, and it may be consistent, but those guys look unemployed and every time I've shone up, they're just packing it in after a whole day there. Not much chance for me to get to untouched waters.
But there are two tactics. Higher casting technology that gets my bait out there to channels that may be beyond where most anglers have cast. The other option is to find new places that no one fishes for sturgeon. Which is what I've been trying to do recently.
So I'm fishing blind. But not really. The Internet can teach us a lot. We find out little nuggets of information on what makes for good sturgeon water. Geographical Information Systems (GIS) is so prevalent now, and we even have satellite pics of shorelines that tell us what might and might not be accessible. Another example is information that says that water need not be deep. It just needs to consistently be covered by water around 6 feet deep at low tide and provide forage. Smaller sturgeon feed on small mollusks, crustaceans, small bottom fish. Big sturgeon move up to feed on larger fish. But they are opportunistic feeders, eating and moving on, using the current to move in and out. that said, sturgeon also favor a certain salinity and temperature of water.
The Internet can help someone who does careful research to monitor conditions. It gives maps of estuary salinity levels over a long history, and this can help identify spots of greater potential.
So while it's one thing to fish a pier where you've personally seen people pull sturgeon out, it's another to be the "first" to find sturgeon in untested waters. It requires tremendous confidence in knowing the conditions and "thinking" like a sturgeon.
Lastly, there are two remaining factors - bait and tackle. Well, this is where the Internet has been great information. It's quite obvious what works for different people. My conclusions from everyone's experience: Sturgeons aren't picky about the type of bait, they're picky about its freshness. And I'll stick with my feeling that lighter tackle will help detect the hits much better than heavy.
The Internet does provide. And while I wouldn't be so critical against Sturgeon Followers, I will agree that I get great satisfaction knowing I'm the hunter, not the prey. And soon, when I do find those dinos, then the Student will have become the Master!
Posted by Red Fish
Agree and disagree. Nufo is right about "time on the water." I never fished for sturgeon the first 30 years of my fishing career. Really, I never started fishing for halibut until around '88. Why not? Patience really and I had no real interest. I was happy enough just catching perch and smelt as a kid. Back then there were no halibut fisherman near the beginning of Berkeley Pier. The few "butt heads" fished at the end, put their fish on tag lines over the side and did not publicize their catches. As Nufo knows (and I as well) their are many outstanding anglers out there that catch fish for food and are not interesting in posting about it on the internet (many or these irritable, rough-hewn fellows do not even own a computer).
O.K.-what I am getting at is that a lot of time and effort is put into locating sturgeon (from the bank). Many sturgeon anglers have put in a great deal of hours figuring out when and where and because of the time invested, they are very conservative with divulging this information. Now, if you put in some time then people are willing to help you out a little bit.
For instance: out of all the years at Berkeley Pier fishing for halibut, the "pier experts" only started to notice me after my stringer started getting full. They offered no help at first, but after they saw I could catch some fish on my own, the majority of them wanted to show me their secrets. Heck, and I did develop a few secrets of my own that they now ask about.
Posted by TheCrw
This is a message board. And I got your message... better if you didn't say anything at all. Maybe you'll be one of those regular posters that got so fed up that you'll stop posting. Sounds like you're almost there anyway by your own admittance.
I put in my time, if not on the water, then on the computer, on the cell and reading. We can't all have the life of Riley and fish 5hr + weekly. Fortunately, I've got some friends who'll help me out w/ their limited knowledge and I'll drink it all in to my best ability. Most of them travel all over the place, (cept Mel) and I'm still trying to decipher the ryhme and reason. All I know is that they're experienced, good fun and kind enough to show a newbie what they know. (in fact, I'm switching over to this new shorter leader idea cause that's what they're using - is that riding someone's coat tail?)
At the end of the day if I catch a sturgeon, I'm the one that caught it, unless someone set the hook for me (which in my book doesn't count).
I'll be lucky if I get out once a month, so excuuuuuusssseee me, if I use the computer to find where the fish are or my best chance on finding them or learn a few tricks. Let's face it, no one KNOWS where they are only their best guess, which some feel free to share and some others not.
I think I know which camp you come from, so I probably won't be fishing w/ you. and by the way, you put this one out there... I just answered it. When I DO catch one, it'll be a long list of PROPS I’ll be giving and one will even be to you, for not listening to you and following my own gut and doing it MY way, with the help of my FRIENDS of course, cause without them, I'd be lost (well at least farther from my goal) ~Elric aka TheCrw
Posted by gyozadude
The question is, can you trust your Friends... to give you good intell on the dino ops? Certainly we think we're all on the same team, but just like the CIA can give bum data on WMD, do we take action on their account without doing some verification ourselves?
Self-reliance on what this to thine own self be true is a tremendous power to have. Focused fishing on limited time learning on a steep curve is a good challenge fit for the true master anglers. Wouldn't it be more virtuous to achieve that on your own, rather than rationalize the plagiarism of someone else’s research to get a few hook ups?
I think Nufo is just pointing out that there are a lot of new folks on the board who want the easy hook up with a dino and are constantly asking obviously brain dead questions on who, what, when, where, and how. These folks are more interested in the hook ups themselves and the subsequent fight, than the pursuit itself to find these elusive creatures.
It's obvious that these folks aren't confident in their gear or their fish fighting skills to the point where they don't need to ask such trivial questions as to what line to use, and what size hooks, etc. But in the self-pursuit to find sturgeon and proving oneself worthy, the confidence in gear and fighting skills will come.
Posted by Nufo
Last try. Ok this is the last try to and then I am done beating you over the head with info you just don't understand. Fishing with a bunch of friends is a fun time. However you would be better off fishing alone where you can be focused and not distracted b.s.ing about how short your leader should be or what kind of slider or sinker you need. The name of the game is concentration and focus. But again you'd prefer to wait for that once in a lifetime suicidal sturgeon to run by and hook himself. Ok I am done wasting my breath. Nufo
Posted by Songslinger
Nufo: You Are The Man!
Posted by jason chin
More sturgeon fun! Hey guys...Checking in. Here's some more stuff that might help.
1) Keep it simple. I use a slider/bead/swivel and attach a 14" leader of 50lb. mono w/two stationary hooks. Simple. No egg weights, no colored bead art project, no extra crap. Nothing. Keep it simple.
2) Good bait you change often. Get your bait and spend the money for the good stuff. If you don't have the money don't fish and expect to be successful. CHANGE OFTEN. Check your line don't get lazy. If there are crabs, around every 5 minutes I change it. 3 or 4 dz. shrimp or 1 lb. just for myself is not unheard of when crabs or junk fish are thick.
3) Put your time in. Yup, I'm sure you heard it before. You know how much I've sacrificed to do what I do. Lost quite a few girlfriends, quite a few dollars, but that's what I do, and what I choose to do. You won't catch me putting them back at the bar (like most of my other buddies) till 2AM, most likely I'll be leaving w/rod and reel at 2AM. Sacrifice.. this isn't an easy thing. And yes I did this employed, but fishing before and after work with no sleep was a normal thing. Fishing is WORK if you want to be successful. If you don't have time sturgeon fishing is not recommended. Trout fishing can be exciting
4) The big hint. You guys want a sturgeon? Go to Dumbarton Pier. It's loaded w/sturgeon right now. I'm catching fish this past week out of that same side of the channel that runs right by the pier. THE SAME TRAVELING LANE and have been for the past 4 weeks now and know that region well enough to know they're coming by the pier. If you're not seeing any caught you guys are not fishing it correctly. Don't want to use Crw and crew (U know I love all you guys, constructive criticism) as an example but check it. "Fished Dumbarton too many people in the corner of lower platform so had to fish 20 feet back" Not OK there's two spots to catch sturgeon there and you need to get up EARLY and go get em if you want a fish. Even if the tide isn't good until noon you need to claim the spots so you're in position for the right time. Can't emphasize how crucial this really is. You guys only fished 3 hours, not long enough in my book. Right after you left someone could've grabbed one. That outgo has been very productive. I've posted about the "EXACT" spot you should be casting. G_Dude even drew a detailed map that's in the archives for both spots the top (which I actually prefer) and the bottom corner. Those are the two spots that give up sturgeon and if you see a sturgeon caught anywhere but those 2 spots. Blind luck, trust me but I've seen it happen. BTW fillet of herring/grass shrimp combo has been doing it for me. Don't waste a rod using anchovies if you're "targeting" sturgeon. There are fish at this pier year round and am surprised you guys are so turned off by it. I believe one of the most consistent producers in all the bay area. I learned the whole game at this pier, I suggest some of you struggling if you really want to learn do the same.
If you don't have the time or the effort sturgeon fishing isn't for you. Honestly. Hours upon hours like I said sacrifice. If you really want it bad, you make time. And for those of you that think it's silly or extreme I give up all this stuff just for fishing. Don't expect to be successful.
I say again I'm not on anyone's side or picking on anyone. I love you all. Put em in and get one. Hope this helps. Can't fish today so I guess I gotta talk about it. See what I mean? Whaler_J Jason "bayrunner"
Posted by patrick333
Good info, Jason. Haven't seen you post for quite a long time.
Posted by mel
Thanks Jason! I pretty much have been doing what you suggested except for the location, but I believe my location I always go to is all right. I've seen fish caught there. Also, I knew that it was going to be a challenge when I took the job. Heck, I ain't complaining. I've learned an awful lot. And Crw, there are a LOT of people e-mailing me and giving me tips on locations and invites and stuff. I have to mention that. I'm not doing it alone. I sense a heck of a lot of frustration in you. Hope you get over it. To Nufo, Jason Chin, Sturgeon King and you seasoned sturgy anglers, (sorry if I left anyone out), sometimes I really hate you guys, but at the same time, I want to be just like you guys. Just being honest. Well, gotta go make some bait money.
Posted by Nufo
Mel. I suggest you search the archives for Neptune1234 + McNears. He put his time in and nailed a few nice fish a few years back. Nufo
Posted by mel
Thanks Nufo.
Posted by Red Fish
Heck, I didn't fish hard when I went there. I brought the cold ones to throw back. I had been up half the night fishing in Richmond, Ft. Baker, and Berkeley Pier. There was enough room to fish on the lower deck and I questioned, "Why aren't we fishing on the lower deck." I knew the channel was reached by casting toward Menlo Park. But, heck, I wanted to sit down and relax and see someone else do it. BTW, the guys on the lower deck got zilch! Remember I was the one mentioned that had a mini-pizza sized bat ray on his line for mama cow shark.
I heard some reg. about minimum leader length 18". No being an authority on the law, somebody got a take on this one. Gyoza, Ed, Slinger, Jason, anyone???
I think I lost one PHD girlfriend to fishing but heck, but I believe the real reason was that she was not intellectually stimulated enough by me, LOL
More fish, bigger fish!!!You know you a playa anyway Jason
Posted by gyozadude
Sorry, can't find any leader length restrictions. I looked in the ocean regs and it doesn't look like there's any minimum leader length restrictions. I've seen it in other regulations for either fresh water or other state/provincial regs like WA, OR, or BC. It's to prevent snagging. But for us in CA, the only size is minimum 18" opening diameter for ocean fish landing nets or something like that.
Posted by jason chin
Honestly Red. I didn't even know you guys were drinking. I was referring to my buddies that don't fish at the bars/clubs all night. High School/work buddies my age and such. So don't take that comment the wrong way. Nothing wrong with having a cold one.
On the leader note. My leaders actually run a little longer than 14 looking at this ruler I have right here but no longer than 18. I honestly don't measure it out, just kind of pull line off the spool. I've never been hassled and I've fished under Barry's eagle eye tons of times. You know how that goes.
"The guys on the lower deck got zilch!" I promise they're there. Don't count on those guys. Your line probably looked better than theirs if it was down there. Just because they didn't produce doesn't mean that your line wouldn't of. You know what I'm saying, you know how to get em.
Posted by Red Fish
Tip #34 mentions minimum leader length=18" These are partyboat captains to include contributions by Capt. Bags. I have heard other guys mention this (maybe a Carquinez/Delta rule). I was just kidding. I don't take my fishing as serious as you. If I catch, I catch if I don't, oh well, I'll have an excuse, LOL But I will fish off the front if I go back. I want to get muddy and fish FFB anyway!
http://www.californiadelta.org/deltasturgeontips.htm