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PFIC Message Boards >> Pier and Surf Fishing This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
>> Kirk Lombard and Sea Forager, sea_forager [topic: previous/next]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:52 pm
Ken Jones


Posts: 9724
Location: California

I received an email from KIRK LOMBARD who as many of you know runs a BUSINESS in San Francisco called Sea Forager in which he takes people out and shows them how to forage for seafood (among other things). He was a long-time PFIC member, was once a fish counter for the DF&W, and we exchanged many a letter over the years regarding fish and our experiences. I've long considered him an expert when it comes to fishing and the sea and have also long considered him a good guy.

He was contacted by members of PFIC who have seen the recent posts by sea_forager and wants people to know that he is not the person who is making those posts.

Specifically, he says he would not burn spots which, with the detailed pictures and information in the recent posts, he feels is happening and which he knows is offensive to many.

It's a difficult topic for PFIC because we do want people to make reports and if we are a teaching site the more information usually the better. However, we understand the concern of many people have regarding "burning" shore spots (which I do not feel is valid regarding piers).

It's a topic that has been debating in depth over the years and we've never been able to come up with a solution favorable to all.

However, we can say for sure that these posts are not made by Kirk and any anger on the part of any anglers should not be directed his way.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:39 pm
sea++


Posts: 278
Location: San Francisco

Ken Jones wrote:
I received an email from KIRK LOMBARD who as many of you know runs a BUSINESS in San Francisco called Sea Forager in which he takes people out and shows them how to forage for seafood (among other things). He was a long-time PFIC member, was once a fish counter for the DF&W, and we exchanged many a letter over the years regarding fish and our experiences. I've long considered him an expert when it comes to fishing and the sea and have also long considered him a good guy.


Oh I've received many PMs since I started posting here from people asking if I were Mr. Lombard, especially since I also live in SF. In fact, it was through those initial messages that I became aware of Mr. Lombard and his business in general, and obviously the unfortunate coincidence that I happened to pick a username that is the same as his "brand's" (for lack of better term) name. I understand how important branding can be and don't wish him or his business any harm, so he is welcome to "have" the username as far as I'm concerned. If you or someone else has a suggestion how to migrate my posts to a new username so Mr. Lombard can have a "clean slate", I'm definitely open to that.


Ken Jones wrote:
Specifically, he says he would not burn spots which, with the detailed pictures and information in the recent posts, he feels is happening and which he knows is offensive to many.


Obviously Mr. Lombard and I have a substantial difference of opinion as to what constitutes legitimate sharing of information when it comes to angling and foraging along the shoreline. If he wishes to PM me directly, or have what I'm sure will be a lively debate here in the forums, I'm always willing to discuss things like this in an adult manner.

.. but I also understand that

Ken Jones wrote:
It's a topic that has been debating in depth over the years and we've never been able to come up with a solution favorable to all.


.. so I don't think it's particularly necessary to rehash the argument.


Ken Jones wrote:
However, we can say for sure that these posts are not made by Kirk and any anger on the part of any anglers should not be directed his way.


Agreed! Those of you here on PFIC that are clearly very upset when I post a report may continue to send me your overly aggressive and hostile PMs about how angry you are-- since it really doesn't bother me-- and just know that it's not Mr. Lombard, and please don't take it out on him or his business.

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:43 pm
ryanrs


Posts: 31
Location: San Francisco

I recently joined pierfishing.com and I've traded a number of PMs with our sea_forager, Patrick. I did notice the possible relation to Kirk Lombard, but it took only a cursory googling for me to guess they weren't the same person.

I'd like to say that as a newcomer to the site, and also to fishing, I really appreciate sea_forager's detailed reports, especially the specific spot info. When you're new to the whole fishing thing, and none of your friends fish, it's really hard to know where to start. Being able to pull up a spot on Google Earth and see the surrounding area is an immense help to someone just starting. Thank you for your reports sea_forager, I love reading them and they've helped me get started fishing.

As to those that prefer to keep spots secret, I understand why you might want to do that. But at the same time, it does make new people feel kind of unwelcome. As if shore fishing is some exclusive club, and the current members don't want me to join. And I guess it's ok if you want to write your own reports that way, but I hope that attitude doesn't extend to shouting down those who are inclined to be more open.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:15 pm
Trumbo


Posts: 866
Location: East bay

If he donít burn spots why did he go to fort baker with the bizarre foods guy on tv?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:20 pm
Silentpartner


Posts: 41

He only burns other people's spots.

I like Lombard of the Intertidal and I like reading the fake sea foragers posts but if the fake Sea Forager was just slightly more vague it would be better for everybody and the fish.

Posting GPS coordinates enables the lazy losers who just want meat and aren't willing to do the leg work.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:59 pm
sea++


Posts: 278
Location: San Francisco

Silentpartner wrote:

if the fake Sea Forager was just slightly more vague it would be better for everybody and the fish.


Eh, I'm not completely sold on the rebuttal that posting detailed information about the specific spots that I report on are leading to unsustainable pressure on the fish there. I rarely see anybody fishing the spots that I write about with the exception of large beaches like Ocean Beach, Baker, etc... and other anglers that I know that also fish some of the same areas more regularly have also reported little to no change in the number of people casting out. I know this is purely anecdotal and I suppose it's possible that when I'm not there it's like Montauk and completely blown out, but I have my doubts haha

Ultimately the kind of fishing I'm posting most about, rockfishing from shore, takes a fair bit of effort not to mention surefootedness, and if my cooler is any indication, by no means is it an efficient way to do a meat run. That's probably why even with detailed reports, it's still going to be a big turn-off for all the lazy people you mentioned.

But when I hear reports of other people reading my stuff and still deciding to put in the time to drive out to some of these spots, scramble down rocks and goat trails, and put up with the constant snagging and loss of tackle to what? Land a single grassy or cab? It always puts a big smile on my face because I've been there and know exactly what they had to put up with to land anything out there. Just because they got some link to a GoogleMap isn't going to really make the trek out any easier or productive, but it may make it safer than had they gone in completely blind, and I'm OK with that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:41 pm
xpostman


Posts: 92

Kind of figured out they were different people. I appreciate both of them for their reports and providing useful information both on PFIC and Twitter. Gotta hit Kirk up on foraging the coastline soon.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:36 am
Phil Hill


Posts: 1

I also greatly appreciate the detailed reports from sea-forager. Being a newby it at least shows me the way. I immediately figured out this was not Kirk.
Keep up the good work!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:52 am
nacho


Posts: 25
Location: Bay Area

In the beginning I felt a little bit ambiguous about the so called "fake" sea_forager reports (although this does not seem to be a registered trade mark, so everybody can use it, and I'm only using fake here to distinguish between both, because I do not like the slightly negative tone of fake). I, as many others, thought that some "secret" spots might have been revealed, with hordes of people from the five continents salvaging every possible fish from there Smile. But, after some time, I have changed my mind, mainly because of:
1) I have not seen any significant increase in the number of fishermen on some of the spots reported.
2) I agree with sea_forager argument that "lazy" fishermen will not go to the effort of driving a lot, jumping within rocks with gear with a severe risk of falling (I have fell so many times, even being super careful) and fighting with kelp and strange ocean bottoms to catch one undersized cab that has to be returned. And, if they go, then they are not that lazy, and probably deserve it.
3) Reporting one spot might increase the fishing pressure, but reporting dozens of them, as sea_forager does, will not. There is so much variety of spots being reported that potential fishermen do not need to go to only one.
4) Being practical: Yes, we can set rules that such reporting is prohibited. This will change nothing, because such reports can be posted anywhere else, including blogs, etc. So, accepting that people are different and they have different feelings towards information, I rather prefer the reports being posted here.
5) There seems to be some inconsistency between the Department of Fish and Game, and even Ken Jones, trying to promote and increase the number of fishermen, especially young ones, and the complains that these reports might increase fishermen out there. Are we in favor or against it?

Just my humble opinion.
Regards.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:32 pm
Troutdog


Posts: 28

The issue of "spot burn" is a touchy one that's hard to get agreement on. I tend not to give the exact locations of the small roadside creeks and lakes I fish in the mountains because I don't think the trout populations in those areas could take the increased pressure. I don't however have many issues of naming the back country lakes I fish (with a few notable exceptions) due to the fact that most folks wont make the effort to back pack several miles to catch 12 to 16" trout.

I see the same correlation here in that the PFIC Sea Forager posts of spots that are difficult and often dangerous to get to. Not a whole lot of "lazy" meat fisherman are going to put out the effort reach such locations.

I fish the surf more for perch and stripers than I do for rock fish, and I typically name the beach's I fish at, but not always. A friend turned me on to a nice hidden crescent of sand near Morro Bay that I frequent, but he asked I not tell of its exact location. I really don't think it would matter, but I agreed and so I don't show any locale shots when I fish that beach.

I for one love reading the posts of you guys catching rock fish from the cliffs and such (Sea Forager, Frozen Dog, etc, etc), so if my vote counts, keep em coming!!

P.S. I just went to the Sea Forager web site. Now I don't know this person and I'll take Kens word he is an all around good guy. That said, I had to smile when I saw that he has a book advertised on the site titled, "The Sea Foragers Guide to the Northern California Coast" Go figure!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:19 pm
SunnyvaleMatthew


Posts: 6

I took a class from Kirk some years back. He's a great guy and his book is also great. It's not a guide in the sense of a location guide, but organized along the line of species and describing habitat generally and methods. And how to cook, and plenty of opinions. It's a top 5 CA fishing book for me, right up there with PFIC.

I also have enjoyed reading sea_forager's reports. No conflict for me. Both these guys have helped me learn more.

Thanks to all, perhaps most to Ken, both for managing this forum and publishing his book.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:01 pm
beutelevision


Posts: 88
Location: The foggy side of San Francisco

I can highly recommend Kirk's book "The Sea Foragers Guide to the Northern California Coast". It's currently my favorite fishing book and I love his quirky style and humor. I was laughing out loud when I read the section on how NOT to make leopard shark ceviche. I've also taken his encouragement to eat more forage species like herring. I haven't tried collecting seaweed yet, but I know I will eventually. You can tell from Kirk's writing that he is having fun, and that's what fishing and foraging is about, right?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:43 pm
Rockfish Ninja


Posts: 469

Ken Jones wrote:
I received an email from KIRK LOMBARD who as many of you know runs a BUSINESS in San Francisco called Sea Forager in which he takes people out and shows them how to forage for seafood (among other things). He was a long-time PFIC member, was once a fish counter for the DF&W, and we exchanged many a letter over the years regarding fish and our experiences. I've long considered him an expert when it comes to fishing and the sea and have also long considered him a good guy.

He was contacted by members of PFIC who have seen the recent posts by sea_forager and wants people to know that he is not the person who is making those posts.

Specifically, he says he would not burn spots which, with the detailed pictures and information in the recent posts, he feels is happening and which he knows is offensive to many.

It's a difficult topic for PFIC because we do want people to make reports and if we are a teaching site the more information usually the better. However, we understand the concern of many people have regarding "burning" shore spots (which I do not feel is valid regarding piers).

It's a topic that has been debating in depth over the years and we've never been able to come up with a solution favorable to all.

However, we can say for sure that these posts are not made by Kirk and any anger on the part of any anglers should not be directed his way.


Ken, I rarely put my 2 cents in here but I just wanted to make a suggestion. I feel that PFIC should *require* sea_forager to change his online name as to not create Kirk Lombard any more frustration and negative publicity to his (I presume) copyrighted business name.

I don't agree with sea_forager's foolhardy actions regarding fishing locations but he has the right to do what he wants regardless of who he offends or angers, or when his favorite spots get fished out. He just should not be able to do it using Kirk's business name, knowing that it has great potential to harm Kirk's reputation.

It seems to me like the only right thing to do.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:26 pm
Trumbo


Posts: 866
Location: East bay

Rockfish Ninja wrote:
Ken Jones wrote:
I received an email from KIRK LOMBARD who as many of you know runs a BUSINESS in San Francisco called Sea Forager in which he takes people out and shows them how to forage for seafood (among other things). He was a long-time PFIC member, was once a fish counter for the DF&W, and we exchanged many a letter over the years regarding fish and our experiences. I've long considered him an expert when it comes to fishing and the sea and have also long considered him a good guy.

He was contacted by members of PFIC who have seen the recent posts by sea_forager and wants people to know that he is not the person who is making those posts.

Specifically, he says he would not burn spots which, with the detailed pictures and information in the recent posts, he feels is happening and which he knows is offensive to many.

It's a difficult topic for PFIC because we do want people to make reports and if we are a teaching site the more information usually the better. However, we understand the concern of many people have regarding "burning" shore spots (which I do not feel is valid regarding piers).

It's a topic that has been debating in depth over the years and we've never been able to come up with a solution favorable to all.

However, we can say for sure that these posts are not made by Kirk and any anger on the part of any anglers should not be directed his way.


Ken, I rarely put my 2 cents in here but I just wanted to make a suggestion. I feel that PFIC should *require* sea_forager to change his online name as to not create Kirk Lombard any more frustration and negative publicity to his (I presume) copyrighted business name.

I don't agree with sea_forager's foolhardy actions regarding fishing locations but he has the right to do what he wants regardless of who he offends or angers, or when his favorite spots get fished out. He just should not be able to do it using Kirk's business name, knowing that it has great potential to harm Kirk's reputation.

It seems to me like the only right thing to do.

This crap has gone far enough. Nobody really cared. Anyone that did and even those that donít knew it wasnít Lombard.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:39 am
ryanrs


Posts: 31
Location: San Francisco

Sea_forager should just set his location to "Not Kirk Lombard" and call it a day.
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