pierfishing.com :: FAQ :: search :: memberlist :: album
  Sign-up as new user :: log in



Sign-up as new user | I forgot my password

PFIC Message Boards >> Pier and Surf Fishing Reply to this topic
>> Reel failure while rockfishing [topic: previous/next]
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:56 am
sea_forager


Posts: 166
Location: San Francisco

A quick question for those of you hauling larger fish up from the rocks/cliffside:

What reel do you use? Do you often have it break down or fail on you as your frantically cranking that cab or ling (or striper as I've seen some do) up the face of a cliff wall?

I was out rockfishing yesterday for a couple hours (I'll write up a report later) and hooked into the fattest cab I've ever personally encountered. Now I've hauled in (and up rocks) cabezon up to 17" and have had zero issue using the reel but this cab yesterday was so big & heavy that my reel was failing as I was trying to pull it up. The crank would "slip" every other rotation after I got it up about 20ft.

In the end the cab managed to snap my line with about 15ft left to go and fell back into the depths with my hi/lo rig and weight still in its mouth.

I never hooked that cab again but easily pulled in a half dozen rockfish after that with no reel failure issue, two of them over 12", so I suspect it was the bulk of the cab that put my reel on its a$$.

The reel is a KastKing Kodiak 5000 and it has been an incredibly reliable workhorse this season up to this point. It was my primary crab snaring reel until I got a Penn Battle II and I've hauled in plenty of heavy things with it without it ever failing like that. I've got a hard time believing my reel could manage that fish so I'd like to hear from those of you that pull up larger fish from the rocks (or piers) without net assistance. Is this something you often encounter? Am I looking at potentially needing a new reel sooner than I had hoped?

_________________
Catch & cook. No time for selfies.
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:18 am
uglystick


Posts: 56

Wow, that was quite exciting!

I am not an expert yet, but I have been playing around with my old reels recent days. It might be hard to diagnose which part is slipping w/o more info. But I guess the best way is to tie the line to some fixed object and try to reproduce the slipping scenario.

If it's other reels, I might be pointing at the drag washers now. But since you are using this KastKing Kodiak with monster drag spec, I am not sure Smile

However, I believe other rotating parts are working with gears. It is hard to believe the gears would slip with a (big) fish. I'd suggest to break the reel down and examine every part before losing confidence in it.

_________________
fish on
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:38 am
red fish


Posts: 2538
Location: Berkeley Pier

I use the same reel I would use to fish white sturgeon (when I use a spinning reel), a Penn Spinfisher or a Shimano bait runner. The larger sizes preferably that could hold 250-300 yards of 20-30# monofilament.
These reels have the power and capacity to pull fish up cliffsides without breaking.

Some use them with 80# braid and 100# mono leaders and are able to pull out snagged lines in rocks.

There are conventional reels too if you want to throw those, and any decent one will work and have the power needed by Penn, Daiwa, Shimano, etc.

_________________
Well, you lose one you rig one -Quint
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:00 am
red fish


Posts: 2538
Location: Berkeley Pier

sea_forager wrote:
A quick question for those of you hauling larger fish up from the rocks/cliffside:

What reel do you use? Do you often have it break down or fail on you as your frantically cranking that cab or ling (or striper as I've seen some do) up the face of a cliff wall?

I was out rockfishing yesterday for a couple hours (I'll write up a report later) and hooked into the fattest cab I've ever personally encountered. Now I've hauled in (and up rocks) cabezon up to 17" and have had zero issue using the reel but this cab yesterday was so big & heavy that my reel was failing as I was trying to pull it up. The crank would "slip" every other rotation after I got it up about 20ft.

In the end the cab managed to snap my line with about 15ft left to go and fell back into the depths with my hi/lo rig and weight still in its mouth.

I never hooked that cab again but easily pulled in a half dozen rockfish after that with no reel failure issue, two of them over 12", so I suspect it was the bulk of the cab that put my reel on its a$$.

The reel is a KastKing Kodiak 5000 and it has been an incredibly reliable workhorse this season up to this point. It was my primary crab snaring reel until I got a Penn Battle II and I've hauled in plenty of heavy things with it without it ever failing like that. I've got a hard time believing my reel could manage that fish so I'd like to hear from those of you that pull up larger fish from the rocks (or piers) without net assistance. Is this something you often encounter? Am I looking at potentially needing a new reel sooner than I had hoped?



You might like the Penn Battle 11 since you like a 5000 size. They also make a 6 and 8000 size.
_________________
Well, you lose one you rig one -Quint
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:48 am
sea_forager


Posts: 166
Location: San Francisco

uglystick wrote:


However, I believe other rotating parts are working with gears. It is hard to believe the gears would slip with a (big) fish. I'd suggest to break the reel down and examine every part before losing confidence in it.


Yeah I think you're right. I should've done that right after dungeness season ended and gave it a good cleaning too since I really am pretty hard on my gear. I haven't taken apart a reel in forever so this will be a "fun" exercise.

red fish wrote:


Some use them with 80# braid and 100# mono leaders and are able to pull out snagged lines in rocks.

There are conventional reels too if you want to throw those, and any decent one will work and have the power needed by Penn, Daiwa, Shimano, etc.


Thanks for the reply! Yeah we'll see if its failure was just a hiccup or part of a more systemic problem with the reel. Btw how the hell does one tie dropper loops with 100# mono (or fluoro)? I've enough problem with 50lb fluoro and getting the loops through the eyes of my hooks unless they are 4/0 and up haha

red fish wrote:

You might like the Penn Battle 11 since you like a 5000 size. They also make a 6 and 8000 size.[/quote]

Oh definitely. I've got the 8000 on my main crab snare/bait-n-wait setup for the surf. That thing is a like a mini-winch. I really do like the size of the KastKing Kodiak though and it certainly punches above its weight in terms of the drag on that thing (39.5lb) for the price, but I may be seeing the limitations of its build quality now and if that's the case then I'd definitely buy another Battle II 5k or 6k to replace it.

_________________
Catch & cook. No time for selfies.
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:00 pm
red fish


Posts: 2538
Location: Berkeley Pier

Less wraps on the dropper loop. On line that thick, you only need three or four wraps. Same as if you do a clinch knot on 2-400# mono, three wraps. You could also do a figure-8, surgeon's loop.

Yeah, some hooks have a very small eye. I will put the hook on first and tie it in the dropper loop in this case.

_________________
Well, you lose one you rig one -Quint
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:17 pm
sea_forager


Posts: 166
Location: San Francisco

red fish wrote:

Yeah, some hooks have a very small eye. I will put the hook on first and tie it in the dropper loop in this case.


Ok now I feel like a dummy. That's a great tip. Thanks!

_________________
Catch & cook. No time for selfies.
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:17 pm
porkchopXpress


Posts: 56
Location: sonoma coast

I rockfish the Sonoma coast a fair bit. At least once or twice a week. I encounter cliff faces quite a bit out there and always try to avoid fishing them. Its way too hard to land your fish in that situation. You are putting incredible strain on your reel and rod when you try to haul a decent fish up a cliff. I always look for spots where I will be able to land a good sized fish. Also try buying a higher quality reel. Maybe a shimano or penn. If you are looking for a budget reel then the daiwa BG is the way to go. I am currently using it and absolutely love it. Best bang for the buck. I'll take it any day over the penn battle. Or any penn for that matter ( not knocking penn, they are great reels). Check out Alan Hawk's website. This guy does the best reel reviews. He is extremely thorough and detailed
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:23 pm
porkchopXpress


Posts: 56
Location: sonoma coast

Also its not the drag that's the issue. Its the gearing
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:22 pm
Trumbo


Posts: 832
Location: East bay

The bgs are no joke
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:09 pm
peder


Posts: 19
Location: Oakland

red fish wrote:
Yeah, some hooks have a very small eye. I will put the hook on first and tie it in the dropper loop in this case.


I do this too with the Gamakatsu hooks which seem to have a small eye, but I don't like the way the hook dangles on the loop. I like it better when it sticks out straight.

I got some cheaper octopus hooks that have a bigger eye and don't have this issue. I miss the Gamakatsu quality though. The cheap hooks are brittle and break easily on the inevitable snags you get when fishing the rocks.
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:01 am
RobF


Posts: 567

Losing a big fish attempting to crank it up a cliff is the heartbreak of every serious rock fisher. Cranking up a 10lb fish hanging off a 12' rod is incredibly difficult. With that much leverage, you are supporting many times more than 10lbs. Supporting the fish, keeping your line from rubbing the rocks, and cranking inch by inch will leave you physically spent. Cliff fishing is definitely hard on equipment. I have several snapped rods and reels and the broken hearts to go along with each of them.
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:01 am
pinfish


Posts: 2124
Location: Vallejo

I would first hold the reel by hand to prevent it from slipping (if its not a big fish peeling away like Jaws)(or else you loose your fingers). Or I would hold the line and back up myself insteaad of reeling in.

I did this long ago when my abu 4500 couldn't reel in a bat ray. I used the reel to gather in slack, and then I just back up the beach to "reel" it in.

_________________
Top of page
Send private message Visit poster's website Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:02 pm
sea_forager


Posts: 166
Location: San Francisco

Lots of great advice and insight here. Thank you all!

porkchopXpress wrote:
I rockfish the Sonoma coast a fair bit. At least once or twice a week. I encounter cliff faces quite a bit out there and always try to avoid fishing them. Its way too hard to land your fish in that situation. You are putting incredible strain on your reel and rod when you try to haul a decent fish up a cliff. I always look for spots where I will be able to land a good sized fish.


I hear ya. And generally speaking hauling up a wiggling pile of rocks up a cliff face with some line tied to a stick isn't my go-to either, but in this case I'm specifically scouting out productive rockfishing to be had here in SF on the ocean side of the GGB-- which essentially means Lands End & Sutro Baths/Point Lobos, and lots of jagged cliff faces since there's no real low-lying rocks or beaches that are accessible to more easily land a big fish. It's a pain to be sure but it's also really rewarding in the way it encourages me to explore my own backyard.

porkchopXpress wrote:
Also try buying a higher quality reel. Maybe a shimano or penn. If you are looking for a budget reel then the daiwa BG is the way to go.


Great advice. I've been eyeing a BG for a while now and have been going back and forth between the 6500 and 8000 since there's very little price difference there, only line capacity. I'm a little worried about the weight of the reel wearing me out since the 8000 (and 6500) are more than 1.5x the weight of the reel I'm using now. It is the same weight of the Penn Battle II 8000 I have on my main crab-snare/b8nw8 setup and that's kind of a beast haha Regardless though, my next reel will likely be a BG, whenever that happens.

porkchopXpress wrote:
Check out Alan Hawk's website. This guy does the best reel reviews. He is extremely thorough and detailed


Thanks for the heads up! Never heard about these reviews and they are indeed incredibly granular. Really liked reading through a few of them, the BG included. Guy knows his stuff.


pinfish wrote:
I would first hold the reel by hand to prevent it from slipping (if its not a big fish peeling away like Jaws)(or else you loose your fingers). Or I would hold the line and back up myself instead of reeling in.


Yeah I will try holding the reel next time. Unfortunately real estate on that ledge is at a premium so there won't be any "backing up & reeling in" happening haha

_________________
Catch & cook. No time for selfies.
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:50 pm
sea_forager


Posts: 166
Location: San Francisco

sea_forager wrote:
I've been eyeing a BG for a while now and have been going back and forth between the 6500 and 8000 since there's very little price difference there, only line capacity.


Looking at line capacity again, I probably should just get the 5000 since it'll hold more than enough line and is lighter by almost 8oz.

_________________
Catch & cook. No time for selfies.
Top of page
Send private message Make a quoted reply on this post
PFIC Message Boards >> Pier and Surf Fishing Reply to this topic
Page 1 of 1  
Display posts from previous:   
Jump to: