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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:00 pm
VeeZee Spinner


Posts: 24

I have recently tried searching for old posts in the archive, but unfortunately, there was an error connecting to the database. I reached to Ken about this, and he that they were trying to fix this but have so far been unable to.

There is a treasure trove of invaluable information that cannot be found anywhere else in the old archives.

I ask that if there is anyone technical out there, if you could do a great service and help fix this database connection issue that would be awesome.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:08 am
Ken Jones


Posts: 9457
Location: California

Yes, hope we didn't lose it. Given the lack of discussion by current members, it's our best source for many ideas and opinions.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:53 am
red fish


Posts: 2556
Location: Berkeley Pier

Ken Jones wrote:
Yes, hope we didn't lose it. Given the lack of discussion by current members, it's our best source for many ideas and opinions.

Yeah Ken, I am surprised by the lack of discussion or posting. Especially since the fishing, at least in the San Francisco Bay Area, has really picked up. You can actually go out now and catch a ray, shark, striper or halibut. Pier anglers had an exceptional year for white sturgeon in the winter/spring with fish still available.

I can't help but notice the evolution in Internet searches for information. Definitely more visual learning is going on/You Tube. Anglers are putting in any question they have and a video is sure to come up no matter if it is "What rig to use for halibut?" Or "How do you catch White Sea bass from a Pier?"

Our PFIC/UPSAC events, that are currently in hiatus, promoted a great deal of discussion and participation. In essence, the events were the "reality show" of pierfishing. Ken, it tells me where things have gone: from books to Internet reading to Internet viewing.

The book, PFIC 2nd Edition still is "The Complete Coast and Bay Guide" to all California salt water fishing. And the second edition has many thoughts and ideas about pierfishing not only from you but from the many contributors from the website. Things as basic as proper Pier etiquette/safety down to very complex rigging for specific piers.

A last thought that resonates: I actually remember a member or two wishing the "old search" would go away, as if it the secret to Houdini's great escape had been exposed for the world to view. Sometimes brings a chortle when I think of this.

Going forward, maybe having more demonstrations videos or possible short tackle talks and short videos of events (if there are more) could promote more discussion/participation.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:59 pm
VeeZee Spinner


Posts: 24

"A last thought that resonates: I actually remember a member or two wishing the "old search" would go away, as if it the secret to Houdini's great escape had been exposed for the world to view. Sometimes brings a chortle when I think of this."

I was kind of like this. I guess I'm kind of selfish and want all of the "secret" information to myself so I have the greatest edge on the water and in fishing in general, but I would rather have it working and available for the public than to not have it at all.

As to why the forums have been dead.. there are a variety of reasons. I have heard of there being favoritism from moderators for certain elect members i.e. Mahigeer who with all due respect doesn't know what he's doing so when people tried to give him advice or debated with him they got banned. That is one such example.

Another is the lack of moderation of trolls. There are trolls who troll to get a good laugh out of bugging and messing with people, but due to the lack of moderation, it has pissed some old members off.

Then there is the spot blowing. This one is hard to manage on any forum. Forums that are to strict on spot blowing like Stripers Online is too much and boards where spot blowing is allowed and even encouraged like NCKA and PFIC are too liberal. This is a gray area, however, and would be hard to manage.

Finally, there's also been a shift. I agree with Redfish that YouTube is where everything is going now.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:31 pm
Ken Jones


Posts: 9457
Location: California

A couple of things:

(a) No favoritism needed to be shown until people starting attacking other people. Then I am going to stick up for people that I know. Mahigeer rarely posts any longer but he does know the piers he fishes, i.e., those at Avalon, and does more to try to help the piers (in many ways) than almost anyone I know. He cleans the piers, posts regulations, and tries to help people where possible. Not sure many of his detractors ever fished with him, if they did, I think they would have held back on some of the criticism.

As for trolls,they dominate the Internet and we do a decent job of deleting them once they are identified.

Lastly, many people today want to hear things instead of learning things and whereas a lot can come from the discussions, not as much comes from simply reading a post with no comments on the post. But today you have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and smart phones and for many they can grab information without giving any information.

Blowing up spots? Maybe for the shore angler but it really doesn't apply to the piers. Perhaps, as some have suggested, we do away with the pier and shore part and stick to piers? Hard to say.

It may be time to end the message board. I've considered it but keep thinking a new group of articulate, interested anglers will emerge. Who knows?

Lastly, we haven't had any PFIC gatherings for many years. I'm thinking we should return to the days when we had gatherings and people could meet face to face. Three or four a year in different parts of the state probably wouldn't be that hard to arrange.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:28 pm
VeeZee Spinner


Posts: 24

These are things that I have heard others say. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. It's just why I think things have gone down lately.

Also, I ask this with the greatest respect, what will happen to this site once you pass Ken? Is there anyone who would maintain it and keep it running?

Anyways, I hope the information in the old forums can be saved. If there's someone technical with a good heart out there, please help.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:53 pm
Ken Jones


Posts: 9457
Location: California

What will happen to the information is a question I have been discussing with a friend lately, one who is also getting older and one who has a heart condition that is limiting his time of this planet. We both have been involved in the fishing industry for years and both have a lot of fishing "stuff."

I have, I am sure, accumulated more information about California's piers and their histories than anyone else has ever accumulated.

I have paper folders on every pier in California as well as folders on my computer. Virtually every folder is full of newspaper articles on those piers as well as personal stories and pictures of fish caught from most of those piers.

I also have an extensive collection of fishing books and pamphlets.

Neither my son or daughter will want these things and I hate to see it simply lost to history. But, I also don't have much confidence in libraries that would seem to be the natural place to leave such things. Basically I haven't come up with a satisfactory answer to my question. In the meantime I am working on a "History of California's Piers" that is fairly extensive and if I can ever finish it and get it published it will preserve at least a little of what life was like on the piers in California.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:07 am
songslinger


Posts: 822
Location: Where Common Sense Presides

Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.


TS Eliot


Or Thomas Wolfe said it best:

You can't go home again.

There is a tendency for people my age and beyond to wish for a return to the halcyon days of old. We want to go back to those times when we felt more comfortable and where we believed we belonged.

Many of us have been saying this nonsense since the beginning of this century.

Newsflash: Those days are gone forever. You can pine for them, and even elect backwoods Luddites to help you conjure such illusions, but all that really occurs is further resentment and frustration.

And a rather selfish denial of the modern times in which most sensible--and younger--people dwell. Every time I witness some old guy telling a kid that times were better before that kid was born...I want to hit him upside the head with a bar of soap in a sock. It's nothing less than obscene to shortchange a young person's hope and optimism that way.

Times change. California, especially, is a realm of constant change, often as jarring as an earthquake. But we adapt, we move on--or we lament that which no longer exists, or even more wistfully, never existed in the first place.


PFIC has been a great source and will be missed. But when it's gone, it's gone. People who love fishing will continue to fish. People who have to be recruited to fish will find another trendy hobby where group hugs make them feel significant.


EMBRACE THE FUTURE BY NOT LIVING IN THE PAST.
BE HERE NOW.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:53 pm
Ken Jones


Posts: 9457
Location: California

Glen, You may be right but I think it's wrong to overlook our past. Can we go back? No. But if we don't review the past we don't have as good of a means to tell if we are progressing or regressing. In truth we have progressed in some ways; in others we've regressed.

Personally I would still have liked to have been around a hundred years and seen some of the emerging new world.

But yep, I'm one of those old guys who's often looking back and calling it the good old days.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:28 am
RobF


Posts: 568

My 14 year old son has recently developed an intense interest in fishing. He watches a number of different youtube fishing channels and spends hours playing with tackle and casting in the back yard. Some observations.

* The younger crowd is very interested in filming everything, posting it online, and interacting based on the posting. Everyone seems to need to have their ego constantly pumped up. They want to share everything, although they are careful about revealing locations when necessary.

* My son wants to see pictures and video and comment. He is less interested in extensive text.

My feeling is that the perspective of the younger fisherman is that text based forums are antiquated and uninteresting. They are certainly antiquated when youtube and others make it so easy to post media and comments. Message boards make it relatively difficult.

On youtube, the video is the centerpiece, and the comments supplement. On the message boards, text is the centerpiece, and any other media is difficult to work with.

Why do I need a special message board for california pier fishing (or any other specialized subject) when I can go on youtube and more interesting content?

I think the days of many discussion boards are numbered.

Ken you have a lot of great knowledge in your PFIC book. What if you were to take some of that content and make some videos for your own PFIC youtube channel. Many of the subjects in your book could be made into great educational and entertaining videos. Videos could have links to related content discussions on the old PFIC board, so people could read more in-depth.

Rob
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:42 pm
Twitchie


Posts: 148
Location: San Mateo, CA

RobF makes a good point about YouTube. I definitely spend a lot of time on YouTube watching fishing videos.

I don't really interact there much though. I definitely prefer this forum as far as participation goes (feels more like a community, whereas YouTube is like an open grass field and feels...wild and dangerous). However I do get a fair amount of questions on my videos which could be answered in a place like this forum, so there's definitely a lot of people who get information there.

Personally, the biggest thing stopping me from posting more often is I just don't get out very much. When I do, I don't spend much time on piers, and I'm generally pretty bad at shore fishing. So if I have like a 1 dink fish day, I tend to not post since I feel like its not helpful? I don't have anything super insightful to share like Frozendog.

I've also noticed that there are times when posters get flak for being too detailed (spot burning), while other new fishermen who are just trying to learn are asking for more details (in good faith).
I haven't been around that long, comparatively, but I do feel these days I'm a little more wary of posting since the tone of the forum overall has been a little meaner. Before there were people who got aggro, but it felt like there were more people around to defend. Now it feels less so. Just how I feel, no real hard evidence or anything to back it up.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:19 am
FishingRonin


Posts: 164

If saving PFIC means less Ken Jones click bait threads, I'm all for it. Sick of reading a thread titled "Someone just caught a 500lb sea bass off the pier", then when you click the thread, theres a link to an article about some guy that caught that fish back in 1922 or someshing. Or some "Amazing pier fishig in Socal", you guessed it, another link to an article about the amazing pier fishing back in 1944.

Its YOU'RE forum Ken, if you just want a high post count, just give yourself whatever post count you want, but please STOP with the click bait threads. Its worse than the yahoo news feeds pages.
"USA declares war on Russia". Then after you click the article continues "...is what we predict if the current situation with ISIS doesn't correct itself"

"Russia Lauches Nuclear Missle Towards the USA" After click "...is what will happen if we don't form better relations with Russia"

Look, I get it, your old and you can't get out there to fish and maybe you think posting rehashed articles makes you feel relevant again. Then when you see the click count start to go up and it probably makes you feel validated so you post more, and more, and more, and more. Which leads us to some of the problems we are discussing on this thread. I will admid though, it was actually refreshing to see Ken post something new and type something himself instead of a link to an article about fishing from 75 years ago. It lets me know that there is a real person behind the username and not some bot thats got a list of articles that it has to post randomly every so often.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:30 am
Ken Jones


Posts: 9457
Location: California

FishingRonin wrote:
If saving PFIC means less Ken Jones click bait threads, I'm all for it. Sick of reading a thread titled "Someone just caught a 500lb sea bass off the pier", then when you click the thread, theres a link to an article about some guy that caught that fish back in 1922 or someshing. Or some "Amazing pier fishig in Socal", you guessed it, another link to an article about the amazing pier fishing back in 1944.

Its YOU'RE forum Ken, if you just want a high post count, just give yourself whatever post count you want, but please STOP with the click bait threads. Its worse than the yahoo news feeds pages.
"USA declares war on Russia". Then after you click the article continues "...is what we predict if the current situation with ISIS doesn't correct itself"

"Russia Lauches Nuclear Missle Towards the USA" After click "...is what will happen if we don't form better relations with Russia"

Look, I get it, your old and you can't get out there to fish and maybe you think posting rehashed articles makes you feel relevant again. Then when you see the click count start to go up and it probably makes you feel validated so you post more, and more, and more, and more. Which leads us to some of the problems we are discussing on this thread. I will admid though, it was actually refreshing to see Ken post something new and type something himself instead of a link to an article about fishing from 75 years ago. It lets me know that there is a real person behind the username and not some bot thats got a list of articles that it has to post randomly every so often.


Actually I am working on a book about the history of the piers. I find the old stories fascinating; evidently you do not. That's your right but I am sure some people do care about what fishing was like before we ruined it. As for clicking to another site, that's simply because I can add the pictures and text to the site differently than I can on this site.

As for the fishing, I'm still gey out there even if not as much as once. Just returned from Catalina with the usual success. Heading over to the central coast week after next and will, of course, be fishing. So I am alive and well but when I am home, and when I see something I think is interesting, I will post it. I don't really care if you don't like to read the old stuff, some do and it's posted for them. As for post counts? Doesn't matter. What would be nice though are some articulate reflections on the sport, more like those seen in the early days of the site.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:46 am
RobF


Posts: 568

FishingRonin wrote:
If saving PFIC means less Ken Jones click bait threads, I'm all for it. Sick of reading a thread titled "Someone just caught a 500lb sea bass off the pier", then when you click the thread, theres a link to an article about some guy that caught that fish back in 1922 or someshing. Or some "Amazing pier fishig in Socal", you guessed it, another link to an article about the amazing pier fishing back in 1944.

Its YOU'RE forum Ken, if you just want a high post count, just give yourself whatever post count you want, but please STOP with the click bait threads. Its worse than the yahoo news feeds pages.
"USA declares war on Russia". Then after you click the article continues "...is what we predict if the current situation with ISIS doesn't correct itself"

"Russia Lauches Nuclear Missle Towards the USA" After click "...is what will happen if we don't form better relations with Russia"

Look, I get it, your old and you can't get out there to fish and maybe you think posting rehashed articles makes you feel relevant again. Then when you see the click count start to go up and it probably makes you feel validated so you post more, and more, and more, and more. Which leads us to some of the problems we are discussing on this thread. I will admid though, it was actually refreshing to see Ken post something new and type something himself instead of a link to an article about fishing from 75 years ago. It lets me know that there is a real person behind the username and not some bot thats got a list of articles that it has to post randomly every so often.



A totally unfair and inaccurate criticism. Ken does a lot of writing and often links to those documents or a collection of previous posts related to the topic.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:58 pm
Fishmom1


Posts: 180
Location: Benicia, CA

FishingRonin, if this forum is so unappealing to you, it is probably time to move on.
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