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>> Braid or mono on conventional reel [topic: previous/next]
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:15 pm
Rockfish Ninja


Posts: 466

Since I found the benefits of braid on spinning rigs, I've also experimented with braid on my old Penn 155. Started out with 30# powerpro with mono backer, got some distance but had some sinker snap-offs, while going for some extra distance when the line even slightly backlashed. The kind of backlash that you can control mid-cast with your thumb using mono.

Then I moved up to 65# powerpro, only one snap off & pulled in a few big sharks, but noticed the abrasive nature of the stuff from the thumb friction and the sound of it going over the guides of my new Emcast rod. I'm sure the guides are hi-tech tough material but when you can hear the line rubbing like that there's got to be some wear over time. I look at the surfcasters on the east coast, where conventionals rule and 99% of their gear is spooled with mono. Makes me think. (So did the heat on my thumb, and I was using tape)

I'm going to switch it back to some 20# big game to feel the difference, but what is your view or experience with it?

Also, I gotta admit, it's an old reel from 1978 and the side spool adjuster probably doesn't work so well anymore, plus the gear ratio is slow as a crockpot recipe. Maybe I should invest in a penn mag or avet sx.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:33 pm
mav


Posts: 194

I like casting mono... I think the stretch helps keep from snapping off during a cast. I only use braid on certain fishing situations... You have to baby braid on the cast... I can load up full power with a cast on a mono setup with no fear... With braid I'll get a, "DOINK! SNAP!"

The low gear ratio on the 155 is perfect for cranking on sharks and big fish, especially if you need to get em up a pier. It's the drags that are at a disadvantage... I keep my old Penns around... They still have their use... I found that out the hard way...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:33 pm
Rockfish Ninja


Posts: 466

mav wrote:
I like casting mono... I think the stretch helps keep from snapping off during a cast. I only use braid on certain fishing situations... You have to baby braid on the cast... I can load up full power with a cast on a mono setup with no fear... With braid I'll get a, "DOINK! SNAP!"

The low gear ratio on the 155 is perfect for cranking on sharks and big fish, especially if you need to get em up a pier. It's the drags that are at a disadvantage... I keep my old Penns around... They still have their use... I found that out the hard way...


Thanks for the input, I'm going back to mono to get a sense of the difference.

Yes, the low gear ratio is perfect for cranking things up the pier, (although not versatile), but I've never had problems with the drag. Works well and I have never replaced the drag washers/plates.

Still thinking about and Avet sx mc or a Penn squall.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:32 pm
mav


Posts: 194

I like the SX MC.. There's a narrow one now too (J?)... It's still the same deal with braid on the regular SX.. I don't know if it's any better on the MC.

I don't know much about the Penn Squall...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:50 pm
red fish


Posts: 2545
Location: Berkeley Pier

Quote:
look at the surfcasters on the east coast, where conventionals rule and 99% of their gear is spooled with mono. Makes me think. (So did the heat on my thumb, and I was using tape)

I'm going to switch it back to some 20# big game to feel the difference, but what is your view or experience with it?

Also, I gotta admit, it's an old reel from 1978 and the side spool adjuster probably doesn't work so well anymore, plus the gear ratio is slow as a crockpot recipe. Maybe I should invest in a penn mag or avet sx.


What Mav said. It's the whole package: i.e. 7' rod or 11' rod ; how the spool spins: not so fast, super-fast.

Okay, here's my actual example: I fished a Penn 225LD and an Avet SX two days ago, both on 7' 270 Saber rods. The 225--65# PowerPro, the Avet--50# Powerpro. I was casting 8-14 oz of weight on a short Carolina for sturgeon. Outcome: The 225 is almost fool-proof casting because the spool doesn't spin very fast and starting off needing around 4oz just to get that thing to move adequately. Now, the small SX: I have to adjust the drag on this leverdrag to tighten the spool tension to create more tension on the free-spool (everytime I cast and loosen it for fighting drag). Granted, this is to accommodate heavy weights and a lot of friction! When I failed (forgot) to do this, I snapped off that expensive lead!!

So, conclusion: A reel with magnetic control or a reel with a leverdrag can balance the amount of lead casting out and prevent if not stop all overrun (of course unless you really make an operator error).

Final note: I casted the hell out of my 525GS (not mag) with 50# PowerPro with up to eight-ounce weights (but at the time I had glued in rare-earth magnets). I did however cast very far (about a buck-30) in the casting contest with Dan-the-Fisherman using 15# mono, a four-ounce weight, and NO mags.

So, yeah, it depends WHICH conventional reel! Other than that, WAY easier to just longcast a "coffee-grinder" with braid on it for sturgeon or shark if you need higher capacity of line or a higher # rating.

Hope I made myself clear in my examples/explanation...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:30 pm
bigred805


Posts: 365
Location: lompoc ca

I use an avet lx mc for shore/pier duty and I loaded it up with 300 yards 65# power pro and top it off with whatever pound mono I want for what I'm doing. If you go with 20# mono on top you'll get close to 200 yards on there before the reel is full. I like using braid for the added capacity it gives you. That being said if you don't plan to fish for anything capable of running over 200 yards you really don't Need it.I have been fishing for bat rays and had 200 yards of line ripped off so quick it would make your head spin...there's nothin worse then losing a fish and all your line lol.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:47 pm
Rockfish Ninja


Posts: 466

red fish wrote:
Quote:
look at the surfcasters on the east coast, where conventionals rule and 99% of their gear is spooled with mono. Makes me think. (So did the heat on my thumb, and I was using tape)

I'm going to switch it back to some 20# big game to feel the difference, but what is your view or experience with it?

Also, I gotta admit, it's an old reel from 1978 and the side spool adjuster probably doesn't work so well anymore, plus the gear ratio is slow as a crockpot recipe. Maybe I should invest in a penn mag or avet sx.


What Mav said. It's the whole package: i.e. 7' rod or 11' rod ; how the spool spins: not so fast, super-fast.

Okay, here's my actual example: I fished a Penn 225LD and an Avet SX two days ago, both on 7' 270 Saber rods. The 225--65# PowerPro, the Avet--50# Powerpro. I was casting 8-14 oz of weight on a short Carolina for sturgeon. Outcome: The 225 is almost fool-proof casting because the spool doesn't spin very fast and starting off needing around 4oz just to get that thing to move adequately. Now, the small SX: I have to adjust the drag on this leverdrag to tighten the spool tension to create more tension on the free-spool (everytime I cast and loosen it for fighting drag). Granted, this is to accommodate heavy weights and a lot of friction! When I failed (forgot) to do this, I snapped off that expensive lead!!

So, conclusion: A reel with magnetic control or a reel with a leverdrag can balance the amount of lead casting out and prevent if not stop all overrun (of course unless you really make an operator error).

Final note: I casted the hell out of my 525GS (not mag) with 50# PowerPro with up to eight-ounce weights (but at the time I had glued in rare-earth magnets). I did however cast very far (about a buck-30) in the casting contest with Dan-the-Fisherman using 15# mono, a four-ounce weight, and NO mags.

So, yeah, it depends WHICH conventional reel! Other than that, WAY easier to just longcast a "coffee-grinder" with braid on it for sturgeon or shark if you need higher capacity of line or a higher # rating.

Hope I made myself clear in my examples/explanation...


Yea, I don't like to throw lead over 6 oz for what I do, so that won't be much of an issue. Now let me get this straight, you were using the drag as anti backlash control? I never do that and use my thumb, but I think Avet was doing that before they came out with the magged version. The bait setting was originally the "cast-control" setting.

I'll keep the braid on my spinners, sho U right on the "easier" casting but conventional gets more distance if done right and more versatility in the fight.

Thanks for your input.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:51 pm
Rockfish Ninja


Posts: 466

bigred805 wrote:
I use an avet lx mc for shore/pier duty and I loaded it up with 300 yards 65# power pro and top it off with whatever pound mono I want for what I'm doing. If you go with 20# mono on top you'll get close to 200 yards on there before the reel is full. I like using braid for the added capacity it gives you. That being said if you don't plan to fish for anything capable of running over 200 yards you really don't Need it.I have been fishing for bat rays and had 200 yards of line ripped off so quick it would make your head spin...there's nothin worse then losing a fish and all your line lol.


Well a bad birdsnest with a good fish on is just as bad or worse, but I know where Ur coming from on that. I'm re-spooling my old penn with mono because of the burning friction and snap offs. I'll see how it feels.

Thanks for the input.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:19 pm
red fish


Posts: 2545
Location: Berkeley Pier

Quote:
Yea, I don't like to throw lead over 6 oz for what I do, so that won't be much of an issue. Now let me get this straight, you were using the drag as anti backlash control? I never do that and use my thumb, but I think Avet was doing that before they came out with the magged version. The bait setting was originally the "cast-control" setting.

Still, the SX has a ton of free-spool, thus you could throw 2oz weights. If you go up to 6oz there will be a lot of friction and that spool will spin very, very fast. Yes, I was using the leverdrag as an anti-backlash control with larger weights.
Quote:
mav wrote:
I like casting mono... I think the stretch helps keep from snapping off during a cast. I only use braid on certain fishing situations... You have to baby braid on the cast... I can load up full power with a cast on a mono setup with no fear... With braid I'll get a, "DOINK! SNAP!"
That right there; any error with the cast on braid and most times it is snap, snap, snap. If you go with SX, I would say go mag if you are going to do a lot of surfcasting. Also, make sure you want a leverdrag for surfcasting to instead of a star.

Quote:
I'll keep the braid on my spinners, sho U right on the "easier" casting but conventional gets more distance if done right and more versatility in the fight.
Yeah, agreed. But, if you notice for certain types of fishing, like sturgeon from a pier or shore, you will see more people with a spinner than conventional-I would imagine primarily for ease of use. I use the leverdrags mainly for sturgeon fishing in the Carquinez Straits because it is 40' deep or so, a swift current, heavy weights are used, thus producing a ton of torque on the reels cranking in and the extra power helps.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:34 am
pinfish


Posts: 2131
Location: Vallejo

with braid you get the benefits:

of a thinner line
more sensitivity
strength

cons:
digs into spool - so use less drag
wind knots - have to have a good reel
no stretch - use less drag, don't be too strong with rod or setting hook

I use either. But if I'm going after big fish, I would choose the mono. haha

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:30 pm
woody82270


Posts: 577
Location: imperial beach

Braid is the suggested line on most long range boats today. With a 10 foot top shot of fluorocarbon, or mono. Best of both worlds.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:47 am
Rockfish Ninja


Posts: 466

After a bit of testing my results are:

Braid is best (IMO) for spinning reels or conventional reels that are not used for casting. Superline gives way more capacity and pound test rating for it's size. When you can put 65# braid on a mid size spinning rig you can bring in some good size fish. I just get tired of having to use gloves to cast.

Mono is best for casting conventional reels, abrasion resistance, and it won't tear you hands up.

I'm going mostly conventional from here on out, casting or boat fishing.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:34 pm
mav


Posts: 194

I hate using braid for casting BUT I do use it for shallow rock fishing (80-100# range) when casting swim baits with 1oz jig heads... I don't think it's even possible to cast +1oz with 100# mono...

I also use it in some FUN ultra light spinning setups..

Another thing, I've always went by "A knot is the weakest link in your line." Is this still true? It's one reason I don't use a top-shot... A few of my friends that use braid exclusively have had their mono/flouro leader break at knot but I never say anything when it happens. They have this idea that having a reel full of "weak" mono is inferior... They use 30# braid for a 2# fish compared to my 8# mono... I get crazy looks when I just snap my jig off with my bare hands... LOL
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:07 pm
Rockfish Ninja


Posts: 466

"is this still true?"

Most likely but I have a black belt at knots that I learned back east from the surfcasters who always use conventionals with a 40-60# shock leader. I have a shock leader 40# in front of 20# mono now on Avet SX and my knot has no ends sticking out of it, (though I still make sure I wind the shock leader spooled to the side before every cast, so it won't tear up my thumb).

If you do those knots in the powerpro booklet correctly, they hold extremely well, trust me they do.
I have full confidence in my line connections, you can too.

As for snapping off jigs, I did a tutorial about getting out of snags but it got accidentally deleted. Try the bow & arrow technique before you snap off, it works pretty well. PM me if you wanna know.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:12 pm
mav


Posts: 194

Rockfish Ninja wrote:
As for snapping off jigs, I did a tutorial about getting out of snags but it got accidentally deleted. Try the bow & arrow technique before you snap off, it works pretty well. PM me if you wanna know.


Sorry, I actually meant that when I'm changing jig colors I snap it off with my hands instead of cutting it off...

Actually, I'm OK at getting my jigs and other peoples jigs unstuck but but I can always learn something new... I just did from your last post...

PM being sent....
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